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Old September 24 2012, 01:00 PM   #115
Malaika
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post

Doubtful. In the Real Universe

prime universe

joining Ufo and Bry_Sinclair replies to answer (since they pretty much said the same things):
UFO:
It certainly wasn’t the "What the hell’s going on here! That makes no sense what-so-ever" variety of shock in ST09.
The Uhura/Scotty thing certainty WAS a big "What the hell’s going on here! That makes no sense what-so-ever" for me and many other fans that thought the same thing for pretty much the same reasons you're now using against ST09.
Spock/Uhura became very popular after ST09, I can't say the same about Uhura/Scotty after TFF.

And I see what you're trying to do with the comment about Uhura flirting with Spock as her being just playful, it just adds even more double standard in the whole Spock/Uhura vs Uhura/Scotty argument:
She still had, in text, flirting scenes with SPOCK, unlike Scotty. So she showed, to some degree, an interest in him (he also did teach her how to play the vulcan lyre and he complimented her). Nichelle Nichols seems to agree with that as she clearly stated more than once that there was a connection between Uhura and Spock and they were similar about some things. She also stated that Gene Roddenberry had wanted to create a romantic relationship between those characters (and this can explain the early scenes in the series) but he could never do that because her character is POC.
Was the same ever said about Uhura/Scotty? Let me think about it... NO! They're invented by Star trek V only and that's all.
And yet you find it believable that they'd suddenly develop a romantic interest in each other (in the prime universe and the circumstances of the prime universe) all the while you don't find it believable that the same could have happened between Spock and Uhura or that they could fall in love under the difference circumstances of the alternative universe where they're in.

as for the influence of Sybok, I'm not the one inventing it. Even memory alpha, canon source, states that.
The scene between Scotty/Uhura at the beginning could be interpreted as them being long time friends which is what they were, or using your own words, Uhura being naturally Uhura. It can be either way.
It was only after Syboc put his influence that Uhura tried to seduce Scotty who rejected her advances as he understood that she wasn't herself.
After that, their romance was dropped so whatever happened between them it happened off screen and ended there.



Bry_sinclair
It's a relationship that has no background to it. They just threw it onscreen and was kind of like 'where did that come from?'
and Uhura-Scotty in TFF had background?
you pretty much summarized my reaction to them when I watched that movie. And really, that's the main criticism I had always read people writing about that Uhura/Scotty thing.
No wonder why that thing between them was completely dropped in the next movie.

Where was the connection between Uhura and Scotty and when she had showed some romantic interest for him prior TFF?

Point is, AT LEAST Spock and Uhura were showed having some kind of attraction even in TOS how a relationship between them (in the alternative reality) can be less believable than Uhura/Scotty who really had no hint of romantic interest neither in TOS and even less in ST09?

In short, I can understand all your criticism for Spock/Uhura but you lose me when you put Uhura/Scotty in the picture because something in the argument seems absolutely double standard (just like the whole "Uhura is reduced to a love interest" if she's paired up with Spock but everything is fine if she's paired up with any other guy). I fail to see any coherence in this argument. I don't see this better development that Uhura/Scotty apparently got from TFF writers nor I can see how they're more believable than Spock/Uhura.
Furthermore, it's a relationship between Spock/Uhura that is explored in the alternative reality so, unlike TFF and some Uhura/Scotty fans, JJ isn't retconning TOS talking about invisible hints of a relationship between them.

Honestly, it seems to me that many took interest in the Uhura/Scotty thing only after ST09 when Uhura became Spock's girlfriend and many liked the Spock/Uhura's romance.


Their backstory? Where he was a professor and she a student who seduced/was seduced by him?
we don't know their backstory (unless you read the novels and those contradict what you're saying here anyway) so everything is assumption based on what we saw in the movie and my impression isn't that their relationship was based on "lust".
They're both adult people so I don't find it so unbelievable that in those four years where he was her teacher and then they worked together (she was his teaching assistant) a friendship could be formed between them that eventually became something more.

If one can find it believable that Spock and Kirk went from hating each other/trying to kill each other to friendsforever in a matter of two minutes of screen time, then it shouldn't require such a suspension of disbelief to find it believable that Spock could start a relationship with someone that he knew since years and that he admired.

This article written by Kevin Lauderdale for the star trek magazine seems to have the same opinion:
http://spockanduhura.tumblr.com/post...o-as-spock-zoe

in particular I agree with this observation:
"Though he is a Starfleet Academy instructor, and she a cadet, they are undeniably romantically-linked. We don’t know when their relationship started, but she had been one of his “top students”. Given their positions, that they allowed the relationship to begin at all tells us how strongly they must have felt for each other from the start. Being found guilty of “fraternization” would have seriously harmed their careers, if not earned them both dishonorable discharges. Challenging authority to that degree means that they shared more than a mere infatuation. Feelings aside, it seems likely that two people of such intelligence, and with such devotion to their professions, waited at least until they were no longer in a direct student-teacher relationship to become involved."
Only then to throw a hissy fit and use her highly unprofessional relationship to her advantage to get a better posting? That's very appropriate.
That's not what the scene was about IMO. I see a woman who had earned her place on the enterprise and didn't want her relationship with Spock to influence her job. He was wrong and he knew that. Uhura didn't use their relationship in her argument. She proposed the facts that are her skills that had made her earn that place and Spock didn't even try to neglect those facts. He was the one that put their relationship in the argument not her.
Actually, Kirk was the one who got aboard the enterprise even though he wasn't supposed to be there and he wasn't assigned to that ship.
You're implying that Uhura used her relationship with Spock in order to get on the best ship and yet the one who actually got on the best ship using his personal relationships with other crew members (in that case McCoy) is Kirk. McCoy didn't act professional and Kirk cheated.. twice. Of course, though, no one has a problem with it because it was convenient and yet Uhura gets crucified for something that she didn't even do. Talk about hypocrisy and sexism.

We can further add arguments to this double standard you are having here. Like Uhura replacing the previous communications officer because she was more qualified than him while Kirk became the captain only because Spock was emotionally compromised and he got on the ship, to begin with, only because McCoy cheated and helped him using his privileges as a doctor.



One of the biggest niggles for me with the Spock/Uhura thing is that it makes him too emotional.
because Spock choking Kirk to death or acting as a jerk for the most part of the movie is not too emotional. Very vulcan indeed.
Of course the public display of affection is a bad thing but the public display of violence it totally fine and in character for TOS Spock.


But here we see him having a few tender moments with a subordinate, as well as kissing her on the transporter platform, when the standard Vulcan sign of intimacy is a couple touching fingertips--surely she would know this and not want to overly embarrass him in front of the Acting Captain.
ehm... according to the script and the novelization of the movie Spock was the one who actually initiated the kiss. She was just giving him a device that could help him talk in romulan and he kissed her. So, no she didn't force anyone there. Spock is fully capable of making his own decisions and have his own feelings I don't think that evil Uhura brainwashed the vulcan and forced him into an embarrassing display of affection or a relationship, to begin with.
That people still insist blaming her is funny to me.
With all the criticism I read on that scene and people having a problem with it and Uhura it's ironical that the only person that didn't have a problem with it or her affection was Spock himself, the vulcan. Coincidence? think not.
He didn't seem "embarrassed" to me. The very opposite. TBH it seemed that he didn't give a damn about Kirk or any other person watching him there.
Can't blame him. For what he knew it was the last time he was seeing her forgive him if he wanted to kiss his girlfriend one last time before going on a suicide mission. It's not like he could have a private moment with her alone in his quarters.
Top of that, let's not forget that this all happened after his mother had died in front of him, his mother to whom, most likely, he never fully expressed his love to. This also happened after his father, his 100% vulcan father, had admitted loving his mother and it essentially was an absolution for Spock.



My underlying problem is that, while they are trying to flesh out characters who weren't developed or used as much as they could have been in TOS and the original movies, all they could think of for her was to make a love interest? Nurse Chapel is going to be seriously pissed!
my problem is that this isn't the impression I got by watching the movie.
Her relationship with Spock was only a part of her storyline and it was no different than McCoy being Kirk's best friend who supported him through the movie (unlike Uhura who didn't support Kirk and she represented the respect that he had to earn and he earned by the end of the movie).
I never see people complaining about McCoy getting reduced to Kirk's friend only because, of course, he's McCoy but on the other hand everything Uhura did in the movie is conveniently minimized only because she comforted her boyfriend. It doesn't matter if her character had been long introduced way before we got to know that she and Spock had a relationship. By that moment Uhura was the girl who had been one of the top students at the academy, a girl that had intercepted a message that essentially saved everyone, a girl that replaced the chief communications officer of the enterprise because she could speak 3 different romulan dialects while he couldn't even tell the difference between chinese and japanese, a girl that alerted the vulcan people through all channels when Chekov realized that Nero created a black hole in the planet.

I think that it's the fans that are reducing her to a love interest not the writers.
I also think that the real problem here is SPOCK not Uhura. The actual problem is the fact that Spock does have a girlfriend and some people don't like it because of reasons. It has nothing to do with Uhura. Furthermore, if people claim to have absolutely no issues with Uhura being paired up with any other character but Spock, this argument invalidates itself and makes absolutely no sense.
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