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Old September 15 2012, 03:09 PM   #94
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Perhaps, but we have yet to hear a character mentioning an event in an alternate timeline as a 'momentous event in history'.
The destruction of Romulus which motivated Nero's path of destruction in STXI was a pretty huge deal.
You cannot seriously think the scenarists intended for the timeline Daniels spoke of to be, for him, little more than an abstraction, among uncountably many others like it.
Almost certainly, the scenarists didn't plan
ahead; but they intended for Daniels' speech to be about his own history, with emotional resonance to him.
One could try to explain the inconsistency in that the sphere builders made, with the Expanse, an attempt to disrupt history that Archer thwarted.
That timeline may very have been Daniels'. But I say it was an attempt to disrupt history that succeeded.

From "Carpenter Street" (source: http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/63.htm):

ARCHER: I thought you and your colleagues were
supposed to be keeping an eye on the time line.
You're from the thirtieth century. Hasn't all this
happened already?

DANIELS: History doesn't mention anything about a
conflict between humans and Xindi.

ARCHER: How could that be?

DANIELS: The events that are taking place are the
result of temporal incursions. They are not supposed
to be happening
.

ARCHER: But they are happening.

DANIELS: Yes, they are, but the outcome hasn't
reached us yet. It takes a while for changes to ripple
through the time line.

ARCHER: The time traveller, the man the Suliban
worked for.

DANIELS: What about him?

ARCHER: He's the one who told us about the weapon
being built. Should I believe him?

DANIELS: You have no reason not to.

ARCHER: You said I'm supposed to play some crucial
part in history. Does this have something to do with it?

DANIELS: I wish I could say that it does, but I don't
know. I told you, none of this was supposed to
happen
.

Therefore, the conflict and it's outcome are apart from what is in Daniels' history books.
The sphere builders are not the only faction with time/whatever tech, that can compete on that level in the 22rd century and before. They may have been trying to hide - which was why the spheres were working so much slower than their normal capacity.
If the only reason the sphere builders didn't create altered space fast was because, until recently (S3), they couldn't, then in S3 they would have started the accelerated creation of altered space (they didn't) - no federation in the 22rd century to stop them.
Not fact. Supposition. They may have simply cranked the spheres up to 11 in a crisis, risking a burn out or overload themselves.
Also - between the 22rd and 24th centuries are 400 years - time enough to improve their technology, making the speed of creation of altered space even faster.

PS
About 'Procyon 5 doesn't exist anymore' - it's an assumption with HUGE problems, which you omitted to address:
"It doesn't fit what Daniels said/the scenarists' intent (as displayed in the relevant sequences, etc).
It leaves you either willfully ignoring large parts of the sequences, their tone, etc ('momentous event in history', etc) or with FAR larger inconsistencies (the federation not existing to fight if Archer failed; Daniels not caring about massive alterations to the 26th century, etc)."
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...6&postcount=71
We don't know for sure if the earlier timeline continues to exist or not. It seemed to at least as far as "Carpenter Street" (where the changes "hasn't reached them yet") and "Azati Prime" (where we saw the event that inspired the Sphere Builders to alter history). The novel Watching the Clock features a complex model of how time travel works in Trek's multiverse. According to it, nothing "never happened" or is truly erased, athough entangled alternate histories eventually merge again.

Even if it doesn't, Daniels is just one man, whose job it would seem throughout the show was to ensure Archer would found the Coalition/Federation of Planets. So long as there is a Federation, there will be someone to combat attempts to rewrite history.
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