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Old September 15 2012, 04:36 AM   #350
Shane Houston
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Re: VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Halliwell wrote: View Post
So would you still think it sad if people said they wouldn't buy a Batman novel if they killed Batman but kept Robin? What if TPTB of a Batman series of novels did that but kept saying over and over again that as long as the story is good, the Batman novels will still be Batman because they'll still have Robin, Commissioner Gordon and Bruce Wayne's butler.
That's a really, really terrible analogy, because the show was not called Janeway, it was called Star Trek: Voyager. It was not built around a single core character like Batman, but was an ensemble series. A better analogy would be a team book like Justice League -- which has gone through many cast changes over the years.

Plus, as JD said, they did kill Bruce Wayne, and the stories that followed were pretty interesting. Personally I'm sorry they brought him back, at least so soon. Or at least they should've let Dick Grayson remain Batman, maybe serving on the JL while Bruce handled Gotham. Permanent change is not a bad thing in an ongoing series.

When I buy a book with the title of Star Trek Voyager on the cover I expect it to have Janeway in it.
Why? It's named for the ship. Shows have changed lead characters before. Babylon 5 went from Sinclair to Sheridan. CSI went from Grissom to Langton to Russell. Earth: Final Conflict went from Boone to Kincaid to Palmer. Even Blake's 7, a show that was named for its main character, continued for two years after that main character was written out of the show.

No, she really isn't, because it's not a two-person show, it's a nine-person show. And overall, Chakotay ended up being about fourth in prominence after Janeway, Seven, and the Doctor. A better analogy might be Janeway as Superman, Seven as Batman, the Doctor as Wonder Woman, and Chakotay as Green Lantern or Flash.

You're misreading this completely. No, your position doesn't dictate story choices, but neither does mine (unless I'm the one writing the story) and neither does anyone else's. We're not telling you we're better than you, just that no faction of fandom, yours or anyone else's, dictates the choices of the people who write and edit the novels. Seriously, you need to get over this sense of persecution. It's just not what's happening here.

That is a blatant lie. I recall several posts in this very thread from people saying that they were opposed to the idea of Janeway returning, but really liked The Eternal Tide. They did change their minds.

Ohh, there was a ton of argument over that. I'm sure that if you actually attempted to gather evidence by using the board's search function, you'd find that was true.

I remember TPTB at the time said they didn't like the direction that These Are The Voyages finale of Enterprise and took action to use the books they published to fix what they personally didn't like. The only different between those in charge of Trek novels at the time Enterprise was cancelled and the Bring Back Janeway people is that one group had the keys to the kingdom and one group didn't.
It's pretty strange that you're still reiterating that old argument now, when Janeway has, in fact, been brought back by the people in charge of Trek novels.

The message is Editors and TBTP and writers always right. And us little old fans are always wrong because we're not smart enough or because we don't get our facts straight enough or don't represent an audience enough to make a difference.
That's not even close to the message. As I suggested before, there may be reasons why Janeway fans feel they've been persecuted in the past, but it's a mistake to assume the people in the Trek Lit community are participants in that persecution. You're just hearing what you expect to hear rather than what's really being said. You need to learn to lower your defenses and try actually listening. Especially now when Janeway actually is back and there's really nothing to fight over anymore.
See. I knew it wouldn't take you long to come in here to tell me how wrong I am and how my facts are wrong. You know because you were my favorite author I let you make me think that some how if I disagreed with your opinions that I was the one wrong. But that was a mistake on my part. After years of reading your posts I realize that it's predictable're responses.

But nothing you said up there or anywhere else the last 5 years makes you any more right than I am.

Because of this thread I'm reminded of one of my favorite Kathryn Janeway scenes...

"You know, I'm really easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies and I don't like threats, and I don't like 'you', Culluh."
"I excel at following the important ones." Admiral Kathryn Janeway answering Counselor Cambridge's questioning her whether she excels at following orders. Star Trek Voyager: Protectors by New York Times Bestselling authorKirsten "Mother F**ng" Beyer
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