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Old September 14 2012, 04:27 PM   #71
Fleet Captain
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Re: Does the Federation still exist in the 31+th century?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
DANIELS: Vulcans, Andorians, Ithanites (sp?), Klingons. Dozens of species, including humans. All unified in a powerful alliance.
An unambiguous statement.

And - Daniels doesn't talk about the Procyon time-line as of a dreamland what if. Quite the opposite. "Momentous event in history", etc.
Yes, but in the same speech he talks about alternate futures. Alternate timelines in Trek are not "dreamland", they're differing versions of history - just look at "Mirror, Mirror", "Parallels", STXI etc.
Perhaps, but we have yet to hear a character mentioning an event in an alternate timeline as a 'momentous event in history'.
You cannot seriously think the scenarists intended for the timeline Daniels spoke of to be, for him, little more than an abstraction, among uncountably many others like it.

Almost certainly, the scenarists didn't plan ahead; but they intended for Daniels' speech to be about his own history, with emotional resonance to him.

One could try to explain the inconsistency in that the sphere builders made, with the Expanse, an attempt to disrupt history that Archer thwarted.
That their original attack is placed into the future, when they very rapidly modified space (we know they can do it from 'Zero hour') and were stopped by the federation at Procyon 5 (which will take place as seen).

A few episodes later, we hear the Sphere Builders discussing the shifting futures... (from "Countdown")

SPHERE BUILDER: The time lines are in constant flux. Many of them favour the primates and the arboreals. Some even favour the humans. Unless that's the outcome you desire I suggest you find a way to launch the weapon.
From the sphere builder's perspective, it was unwritten future.
From Daniels' perspective, it was written past.

Also - whatever could be verified about what Daniel' said in the 22st century was verified.
In "Storm Front" he implies that Earth no longer exists by his time. Then in "Shockwave" we find out future-Earth is his base of operations.
In 'Storm front' he uses ambiguous statements ~'more or less' - transparently ambiguous, as opposed to lies, that is.
He affirms nothing definite; which was his intent.

Daniels' definite, unambiguous statements came to pass.

As for "Living witness" - the future of the federation, as glimpsed in that episode, is consistent with the one glimpsed in Enterprise:

That the federation should unify the galaxy under its banner and ideals is a VERY HIGH ORDER, indeed.
And, as seen in recent lit, the federation is no stranger to large scale failure.
Who guaranteed the federation will succeed where so many other civilizations failed?
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton

Last edited by Edit_XYZ; September 14 2012 at 04:45 PM.
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