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Old September 14 2012, 02:11 AM   #93
Re: Envisioning the world of 2100

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Mars wrote: View Post
Even if you don't "pay" the computer anything, a computer still costs something to run and maintain, a computer wanting to be paid, is just taking over the responsibility of self maintenance itself, this is sort of like the difference between a slave and an employee.
Which therefore ENTIRELY defeats the purpose of building a sentient/humanlike computer.

To properly emulate a human the computer will probably generate a lot of random numbers
It will do nothing of the kind, because the human brain does not generate random numbers. The human brain generates electrical impulses in pre-determined patterns that have meaning only in context with one another. Although those impulses are often additive, they are not MATHEMATICAL in nature.
Is there really anything in this Universe that is not mathematical in nature? The cells in our brain are made of atoms, and the behavior of atoms can be predicted mathematically. The question is to what degree neuron behavior can be predicted. If one can write a series of rules that predict the behavior of each neutron, one can then model the neuron activity, I believe Human Brain Project in Switzerland is doing just that, so if we can build a fast enough computer which can model all the cells in the human brain, we have the beginnings of self-awareness, probably this computer will consume megawatts of power to do this at first, once we under stand the human brain more fully, we can take short cuts and build computers which can emulate human brains using less power, until we can get a desktop machine or smaller which can do this.

The problem with computers is that in the way they are usually used as calculating machines
They are ONLY used as calculating machines. That's what a computer is: an unbelievably sophisticated calculator. Everything -- and I do mean EVERYTHING -- that a computer does fundamentally boils down to MATH.

A computer needs to have the ability to learn and develop common sense and intuition.
Once again, computers can already do that. Computer learning in AIs has become a mature field of study by now, and the concept of "common sense" is embodied in the development of expert systems.

None of which are in any way close to being sentient or humanlike. None of them NEED to be sentient or humanlike. Siri is actually more functional as a cleverly programmed voice interface as she would be if she was actually self-aware; imagine if your iPhone suddenly chimed up and Siri started asking you, "Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?"
There are at least two paths to AI, there is the top down approach and the bottom up approach. One way to go about it is to try and arrive at AI through a string of logic statements, I believe this would be the top down method. Computer scientists try to figure out precisely what the human brain is doing and tries to figure out the rules to human level reasoning.

The other way is to try to simulate the biological activity in a living organism within a computer, and pick an organism to simulate that has a human level of reasoning skills, which would be a human. For a science fiction concept, I believe the bottom up approach is more interesting then the top down approach. With bottom up, you don't know what your going to get. For a top down approach, your still talking about a finite state machine, a machine that will yield a certain output when given a certain input. Its easier to program a top down machine to get a specific sort of behavior, you can load the information it needs directly into a data base, while an AI derived from a bottom up approach needs to be taught, though an educated AI can be copied as many times as possible becoming that many sentient individuals when this is done.
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