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Old September 10 2012, 04:51 AM   #48
Fleet Captain
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Re: Product placement

Christopher wrote: View Post
Actually, no -- I specifically picked mentions that were pertaining to the Federation. Many of them pertain to the Enterprise crew itself. You're just deliberately rationalizing them away because they don't fit your prejudices, and that's improper reasoning.
No you didn't. Some pertained to the federation, which I addressed, but most didn't. The others dealt with outsiders.

Christopher wrote: View Post

"Most likely" based on what evidence? All the evidence you have a moneyless society comes from a century after the time frame we're talking about. There is only a single piece of evidence, Kirk's line in TVH, that even hints at a lack of money in the 23rd century, and quite a lot of evidence that money and commerce are still taken for granted in that time.
Based on the fact that he uses vestigial idioms all the time. "Mind the store" being a popular one. I already pointed this out.

What's this about "hinting"? He doesn't hint at it. He outright says it. "We don't".

That's sloppy reasoning, and if you tried anything like it in a history class, you'd get an F. You just can't make an assumption like that based on one uncorroborated data point. As I said, in the context of the evidence we have, it's far more likely that he was talking about not using currency.
Lol, history class? what are you on about? It was retconned. Sorry it upset you so much, but it clearly was.

The thing is, you're looking back on this based on the assumptions introduced by the ST of the '80s and '90s. You're used to the idea of "Federation = moneyless" and that assumption is coloring your perception of TOS. But I grew up with TOS in the '70s, and I can assure you that prior to TVH's release in 1986, there was never any question that the Federation was a money-based society. And there's no good reason not to accept that that was the case.
Yeah, I'm aware it wasn't planned that way from the beginning. As I already said, Gene Roddenberry retconned this idea.

The Original Series also suggests that the federation has an agreed upon religion, and that women can't command starships. A lot of it's inconsistent details can be glossed over to make the star trek universe consistent.

Okay, talk about your ad hoc assumptions. Where did you get the idea that the destruction was so wholesale? We've seen that San Francisco and Paris are still intact, and heard reference to numerous other Earth cities surviving, such as New York, Moscow, Kyoto, Brussels, Brisbane, Dakar, Lisbon, and Rome. And the nations and societies don't seem too different post-WWIII -- there's still a France, an England, an Ireland, a Russia, a Japan, a Canada, a United States (though that's part of "NorthAm" by the 24th century), etc.
We've seen a few monuments still intact. That's it. That's not government. Not sure what you're talking about when you bring up New York, Moscow, Kyoto, Brussels, etc. Care to explain? I doubt there is any evidence either way as to whether they survived or were rebuilt.

Anyway, the Memory Alpha article says only that many cities and governments were destroyed. How do you get from "many" to "pretty much every?"
Well, for one, I watched the movie. Maybe you should try it?

RIKER: Makes sense. Most of the major cities have been destroyed. There are few governments left. Six hundred million dead. No resistance.

Who get's the F?

With fact checking like that, no wonder fan fiction gets such a bad rep.
"Thank you.. for the drinks."

Last edited by Mr_Homn; September 10 2012 at 05:05 AM.
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