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Old September 2 2012, 03:57 AM   #49
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Re: Why Is Diversity Focused Only On Race & Species?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And we had plenty of characters in DS9 who didn't agree with the mainstream Starfleet view.
Who were outside of Starfleet, with a very few exceptions. I would advocate diversity within a Starfleet crew.
Spock vs. McCoy. Worf vs. practically anyone else aboard. Bashir vs. O'Brien or Dax. It's hardly true that Starfleet characters have never had a diversity of viewpoints.

Besides, does it matter if they're in Starfleet or out? What matters is that the cast of your fictional show is diverse enough to allow for interesting interactions and conflicts.

I was thinking more showing that the Federation itself had a diverse economic system internally. Show that while the Federation obviously has a monetary system Picard wasn't just talking dreamily when he said no money. Some people in the Federation, in Starfleet, active choose to live moneyless in a system with money.
I'd think it would be the other way around. If you have replicators, if you have access to the solar energy from hundreds of stars and the limitless resources of billions of asteroids, then material scarcity ceases to exist. Not needing money would be the default. Money would be a luxury, something used to obtain luxuries.

Kira isn't in Starfleet, and for the purpose of a clear example of diversity Kira isn't a religious Human who serves right next to a atheist Human, Showing that Starfleet doesn't restrict either from openly following their beliefs. And also openly expressing their beliefs in a public fashion.
Why does that need to be shown? Of course Starfleet wouldn't "restrict" religious freedom. That's a given. Sure, it'd be nice to have a depiction of religious diversity among humans in the Federation -- we've done that a fair amount in the books, with a Jewish captain married to a rabbi in Corps of Engineers, some Muslim characters here and there, and so forth. But just because ST is mainly secular-humanist in its focus doesn't mean there'd be any actual discrimination against religion.

Anyway, if you want to see Starfleet officers expressing belief in God, then watch TOS.

I would really like to see an officer explain openly that the reason the viewers didn't see any gays in Starfleet was that we were prevented from serving, for a reason that was formally support by some members in the Federation, and also some officers in Starfleet. Show the Federation is gaining diversity on a continuous process.

Don't just hand wave the absence of gays away with "Oh gays were alway there, you just didn't see them."
I understand your reasons for suggesting that, but it makes no sense to assume that the 24th-century Federation would still be subject to a prejudice that we're rapidly transcending in the present. That would be like writing a story to explain why TOS used 1960s-vintage dials and buttons on its props. It's not necessary. It's just a consequence of the fact that any work of fiction is going to be shaped by the limits of the era in which it's made. You just have to assume that the technology was "really" more advanced than the makers of the television show were able to make it look at the time, and by the same token, that the crews were "really" more diverse than they appeared to be.

The novels have been saying "gays were always there" for better than a dozen years now, and I haven't heard many complaints -- except from the idiots who don't want gays to be there at all.

And who the hell said anything about "human viewpoints?"
That would have been me. Starfleet ... I can't see influences from the other cultures. It has a Human style military structure, the rank system is American/British ... they have the rank of "Commander."

Other than "class M planet" perhaps coming from the Vulcans, what absolutely screams Vulcan to you?

Or Andorian? Or anybody else?
See above. The problem with the depiction exists, but the thing about fiction is that it's an interpretation of an idea. What I and my fellow tie-in authors often do is present a different interpretation that compensates for some of the oversights of onscreen interpretations. TV and movies require a certain shorthand; it's not easy for them to get into the nuances of a multicultural civilization, and easier to code aliens as alien and the Federation as human. Prose fiction allows a more nuanced interpretation.

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
And Christopher you're showing a lack of imagination...again.

You can have a broadly upbeat and optimistic show but still have a captain whose general personality and disposition are the opposite of that most of the time.
Oh, I can imagine it. I just don't want it. I think what you're suggesting is the thing that lacks imagination, because it's just a rehash of what countless other TV shows already do. Embracing optimism is the fresh, different approach, because so very, very many people just buy into the lazy and fashionable assumption that all you need in order to be smart and sophisticated is to be as dark and cynical as possible.
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