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Old August 29 2012, 05:42 AM   #54
Romulus Prime
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: The broken state of California
Re: "Code of Honor" Ligonians: Humans or Aliens?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
No, it actually did do more than just entertain. Religion is in a different category to me because people actually follow their interpretation of their religion. You only watch a television show, and if it inspires someone to do more than just watch it, then it becomes more than just entertainment for them. But, I’m ready to move on from this part of the discussion. We obviously don’t agree.
See, we do agree...because that's exactly my point. It's also the same with regards to religion:

You only listen to the sermon and read the ancient texts, and if it inspires someone to do more than just listen and read, then it becomes more than just a sermon and ancient texts.

See what I did there?

And “it only matters if you want it to” sounds rather na´ve. Reminds me of something else that’s not quite true either: “What you don’t know can’t hurt you.”
If you think that completely unrelated statement is equal in any way to the one you wrote, then I don't think you understand what self-empowerment truly is...

The issue here is that what was seen in that episode appeared to be some rather bad “African” stereotypes. The generic nature of which that term implies was also a part of the problem, and therefore the complaint.
I never made the connection. In fact, I never gave it a second thought until people in this thread said there were problems. Call me crazy, but I don't go through life wondering if black people are like Ligonians. Probably because to me, they were just aliens with a different culture in a fake universe.

And that’s what is called “agreeing to disagree.”
Sorry no, there is no agreement. The statement "agreeing to disagree" has nothing real or true about it, so I don't go that route.

We disagree, and it's OK to disagree without candy-coating it.

That’s your perception, not necessarily a fact.
I agree that holding on to things can be unhealthy and can cause a person to use bad experiences to prejudge others. We should all try to avoid this. That still doesn’t take anything away from the fact that this episode had some major problems that you obviously don’t believe exist.
The same can be said of your perception! But fine, you want to maintain that I'm not seeing problems with this episode, then say no one is trying to change my mind, while at the same time claiming that I should see the problems - fine.

What do I need to be offended by and why should I look for a problem, especially in light of the fact that it doesn't effect my perception of people one way or another?

I didn’t assume anything about your racial make-up.
I didn't say you did. Reread what I wrote - I said "I have to wonder..." IF... That's not the same as claiming "Hey I bet you assumed I was..." this or that. Seems there is a lot that's being lost in translation though

1. Mr. Poitier’s win was the only non-supporting role you mentioned, and it was so very long ago. That’s not to say it didn’t count. It was a great performance in a nice little film. And it is true that you went on this whole thing with supporting roles.
And apparently "supporting character" to you has less significance since you keep arguing against it's significance.

2. Yes, and most of the major roles were “messed up people.” I think it’s 3 out of 5, which would be 60%. I don’t think they were bad roles to play, and many people of different racial and ethnic groups play bad or “messed up” characters, but those are the facts.
And yet I posted none of those as examples. Your point?

3. I think that you’re confusing what is meant by “major,” here. We weren’t saying that the actors that were in those supporting roles didn’t have major impacts in the films they were in, otherwise there wouldn’t be awards given out for supporting roles. Sometimes, the supporting roles are better or have a bigger impact than the lead/major roles. But again, the facts are the facts. The lead role(s) IS the major role of the film.
And yet, it's not good enough. Glass half empty again. FYI - Oscars aren't the only awards; they just get the most press. How many other significant awards have these and other black actors and actresses gotten over the years?

Oh never mind - let's just focus on that ONE thing.

For the most part, I am happy because I can sift through the "grey area" and I don't walk on eggshells. I prefer to save the terms "racist" and "racism" for what's blatant and deserves it, otherwise they run the risk of getting diluted and losing their significance. That to me is FAR more dangerous a path to follow...
Which is exactly what I said my observation was about you: “I’m beginning to think you just don’t want to see anything but a world (fictional and/or real) where only the most overt (your word was “blatant”) racism and racial insensitivities exist and count. It would be nice if that were the case.” Thank you for the confirmation.

If only the most extreme cases are “racist,” then that means a whole lot of terrible sh*t gets to fly. That’s a far more dangerous path. Very much so.
And thank you for confirming what I've been suspecting - that you want to cling to negative aspects in order to continue to be upset at something that may not even be significant anymore.

I'm half Mexican. My mom and her parents lived in a time when there was real and rampant racism from whites. Oddly enough, they carried no hard feelings against those who segregated them or called them names.

I've been called names too, from Mexicans who didn't feel I was "purebred" enough. I've also had it in a classroom where a Chicano History "teacher" kept inciting how "whites" and "Christians" should be ashamed of how they destroyed the amazing Aztecs - a people who (despite his noble depiction of them) were quite violent to their own people and others in their own right. Then there were the people I used to work with when I did field work, and (later) warehouse packaging at another place - all of whom would get on my case for not learning to speak better Spanish, despite the fact I was trying to learn Farsi.

So if you want to imply that I'm not too experienced in what I should or should not be able to identify as racism or racial insensitivity, fine.

But just so you know...we'll have to disagree about that.

Centurion: "...power is danger."

Romulan Commander: "Danger and I are old companions." - TOS episode Balance of Terror

"Living in your dreams is like living in exile.
" - Calyx, A Stitch in Time

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Hillary Clinton

"It's the economy, stupid." - Bill Clinton

Last edited by Romulus Prime; August 29 2012 at 05:53 AM.
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