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Old August 24 2012, 05:41 AM   #158
Lieutenant Commander
Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
From Julius Caesar to Romulus Augustulus to Thomas Palaiologos, you name me one Roman Emperor, co-Emperor or heir of either the whole empire, or of the Western/Eastern periods who were of a different species other than human.
Just wow.
Waiting for a reply again. Do you want me to list every Roman emperor, or what?

But if you really want to understand their psychology and what goes on in their heads, I have a single episode for you to watch: In the Pale Moonlight - DS9. Both the exchange between Dax and Sisko, followed by the meetings Sisko has with Senator Vreenak and the subsiquent "aftermath" of the meetings demonstrate precisely why the Romulans in Nemesis are written both clumsily and inaccurately.

Dont patronize me. I watched the entire run of DS9 when it originally aired and own the series on DVD. In the Pale Moonlight is one writers interpretation of the Romulans, Nemesis is another writers interpretation.

You may like one more than the other, but both are valid.
I'm not patronizing anyone, I'm telling you about one episode which did a fine job of summarizing the Romulan psyche and how the majority of Romulans have been consistently portrayed in Star Trek, from Balance of Terror onward.

You say Nemesis is another interpretation - exactly. I totally agree with you. Like I said, that's part of the problem with this movie.

I agree. As someone who finds Romulans fascinating, I think they're portrayed extremely well in The Next Generation, given what we learned about them from their portrayal in The Original Series. They are distrustful of outsiders, and are extremely proud of their heritage, traits that they display throughout their appearances across multiple television series.

Yet, none of these traits are displayed in Nemesis, at least not in a way that makes sense. Are all Romulans alike? No, but it's reasonable to expect them to behave with certain parameters, just as it's reasonable expect any one of us to behave a certain way as human beings. The Romulans of Nemesis are decidedly not distrustful, and in fact put their trust in the wrong person when they support Shinzon's assassination of the Imperial Senate. Why?

Donatra eventually realizes her mistake and aids the Enterprise crew in their attempts to stop Shinzon. Her comments to Picard about Shinzon's coup being "an internal matter of the Empire," may be interpreted as Romulan pride, but they could just as easily be construed as a simple apology for the misfortune that's befallen the Enterprise. Her overtures to Picard near the film's conclusion are also out of character for the Romulan people.

"You've made a friend in the Romulan Empire today, Captain, hopefully the first of many."

Again, why? Granted, the Romulan Commander seen in "The Chase" expressed his hope that Romulus and Earth would eventually stand together in peace, but he was willing to only go so far in voicing these feelings aloud. Donatra's comments seem over the top by comparison. It's possible that her views are a reflection of a younger generation of Romulan citizens- a group influenced in part by Ambassador Spock's Unification movement- but surely an Empire that works so diligently to avoid dissent of any kind would avoid placing such an individual in a position- ship's captain, no less- where she could influence others and create ripples of disloyalty.

I've recently started reading Taking Wing, the first novel of the Titan series, and without giving away valuable spoiler information, I'm much happier with the way that the Romulans are portrayed. Had they been cast in a similar light during Nemesis, it's possible the reception of this film would have been better than it was.
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