View Single Post
Old August 12 2012, 10:06 PM   #81
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: Montgomery County, State of Maryland
Re: Is the Federation a True Democracy? And How Did It Reach That Poin

T'Girl wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
If the Federation was run by an oligarchy, how would it be a utopia?
Between a well run oligarchy, and a badly run representative government, which would be the utopia?

Sci wrote: View Post
I'll never understand why this is such a popular hypothesis when it stands in defiance of basic nomenclature.
The "President" could simply be the president of the council, appointed (elected) by the council itself, without the input of the populace. Similar to Herman Van Rompuy, who is the President of the European Council.

Jaresh-Inyo's full formal title could be President of the Federation Council.
No, it couldn't. The President's full formal title was clearly established in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home: "President of the United Federation of Planets." He is President of the state, not president of the legislature.

It's a lot simpler to presume that the Federation President is a president than that the Federation President is actually a prime minister who is called a president.
But isn't it presumptuous to assume that a governing body composed of a conglomeration of several dozen members governing systems would pull it's nomenclature rules solely from a single member?
No, because rationally, they'd use a different term in English for that leader, and a different term in Vulcan, etc., and each term would actually mean what it says on the tin. It makes no sense that they'd call him the Federation President if the actual English term for his kind of office is "Prime Minister." And it is, again, much more rational to subscribe to the hypothesis that doesn't require many other assumptions to function.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
I love how Occam's Razor so often gets touted out as "proof" of a concept.
I didn't present it as "proof" of anything. Occam's Razor is perfectly valid here; it is the principle that urges us to choose from among competing hypotheses that which requires the least number of additional assumptions. It's a lot simpler to presume that the Federation President is a president than that the Federation President is actually a prime minister who is called a president.
You are making one assumption that the President is directly elected.
No, I am making the assumption that a President is a President and a Prime Minister is a Prime Minister.

There are presidents aside from the South African President who are elected by legislatures -- Germany's comes to mind -- but those Presidents aren't necessarily elected from among the legislature, and they're almost always ceremonial presidents who have to obey the orders of the Prime Minister. Since there is no Federation Prime Minister, and since we have seen the Federation President making policy himself without taking anyone else's orders, we can safely rule out this model.

Thus, it continues to require fewer extra assumptions to hypothesize that the Federation President is a president rather than a prime minister who is called a president.
__________________
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote