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Old July 30 2012, 12:53 AM   #320
Paper Moon
Commander
 
Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
And who, for that matter, in the Abrams timeline, literally had Kirk marooned on an ice planet because he believed Kirk would raise a mutiny against him if he didn't.
Well, he was "emotionally compromised" at that point, by his (future alternate self's) own admission. And he did land Kirk close to a Starfleet outpost. I imagine that if Kirk had had the good sense to stay in the pod, Scott and Keenser would've picked up its locator signal and come to retrieve him in some sort of vehicle.
Ehn... emotionally compromised or not, Spock should have just locked him in the brig. Kirk was unconscious when he was ejected in a dinky pod that flew into a planet's atmosphere and crash landed. Spock must have been spectacularly emotionally compromised to do something so dangerous; it makes a little bit more sense to theorize that Spock is prone to occasional bouts of draconian logic during crises, and that he concluded that Kirk posed an extraordinary risk to the mission. That gives his actions a bit more nuance, and makes it more believable than Spock just going berserk.

Sci wrote: View Post
Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Back on topic, though, it is a little surprising to me that Starfleet was not shown vetting, at least implicitly, the Romulans, with or without the use of telepaths. (Maybe I'm forgetting something?) Troi was shown doing that all the time, in a way that didn't seem to be perceived as any more privacy-violating than observing someone's body language.
It's a diplomatic mission involving a Romulan ship. That would be the equivalent of the United States requiring all foreign embassies to be opened up to random inspections by the FBI; it's just never gonna happen.
Picard brought Troi on diplomatic missions all the time for these purposes all the time. The FBI analogy overstates Troi's invasiveness. Picard is a great people reader, but Troi, empathic abilities aside, is, as you said, a trained people reader, and is theoretically an expert in that field. I'm just surprised that Picard never had such an expert (obviously with a more opaque title) sit in a meeting with the Romulans. I know Hegol Den is not cleared for command decisions, but I believe he would have the training.

Christopher wrote: View Post
No doubt Dillard modified the Spock-Valeris scene in the novelization because she found it out of character for Spock and was adjusting it to make it work better
No doubt. Though I don't know if I agree with her assessment that it was out of character for Spock -- this is the same character who, after all, in "Where No Man Has Gone Before," almost immediately jumped to, "You have to kill Gary Mitchell now" long before Mitchell actually became violent or threatening. And who, for that matter, in the Abrams timeline, literally had Kirk marooned on an ice planet because he believed Kirk would raise a mutiny against him if he didn't.

Spock has a bit of a ruthless streak to him, I think. A history of morally questionable behavior in the service of his brand of logic and of the greater good.
Christopher wrote: View Post
But Deanna isn't a full telepath, just an empath -- essentially a very skilled people-reader. She senses what they're radiating -- she doesn't go into their heads and rummage around.

No doubt Dillard modified the Spock-Valeris scene in the novelization because she found it out of character for Spock and was adjusting it to make it work better -- like the way she added a recent Klingon raid that injured Carol Marcus in order to justify Kirk's out-of-nowhere, out-of-character bigotry in the film, or the way her ST V novelization added a passage about Sybok giving the crew special shield modifications to explain why it could just fly right through the seemingly impassable barrier (though she didn't address the half-hour trip to the center of the galaxy, alas). It's a long tradition in TOS movie novelizations for the authors to "fix" the films' plot and logic holes, going all the way back to TWOK and things like Vonda McIntyre using the correct Bayer designation Alpha Ceti instead of "Ceti Alpha."
I don't think Spock's actions in STVI were out of character. A different aspect of his character than we've seen much before, but he definitely serves the greater good, and definitely places a premium value on loyalty. To Pike ("The Menagerie"), to Kirk. I don't think anyone has ever betrayed Spock as much as Valeris did, and I think that his willingness, however hesitant, to meld with her, may have been tainted by anger from that betrayal. (Caveat: it's been a while since I read Cast No Shadow, so if Swallow came up with a different explanation, I apologize.)

Also, for what it's worth, I thought Kirk's hatred of Klingons was believable in the film. David came along at a very emotionally tender moment in Kirk's life (mainly due to Spock's death), and I would not be surprised if he was yet more sensitive to David's death because of that. Combine that with a lifetime of adversarial interactions and 8 years of what was obviously festering grief over David, I can understand Kirk's not-so-evolved attitude towards the Klingons.

But I appreciated Dillard's alternative interpretation of the film. It was, as I say, interesting.

On a completely unrelated note: who is stationed where on the Enterprise's bridge?

I have:
Big Chair: Picard
Riker's old chair: Worf
Troi's old chair: ???
Ops: Glinn Dygan (loved that!!)
Conn: is it still Faur?
Tactical: Choudhury

Do Elfiki, Hegol or Chen have particular stations on the bridge? And is there an established Engineering station on the E-E's bridge, like there was on the D?
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