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Old July 7 2012, 03:30 PM   #397
sonak
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Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: True or False: Dear Dr. is most morally bankrupt trek episode evar

horatio83 wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
horatio83 wrote: View Post
The line is not arbitrary. When a species develops warp drive it has to face aliens and learn to deal with them.
If you drew the line earlier, e.g. when a species industrializes, aliens would have been ethically obliged to prevent the dozens of genocides, the development of sweat shops, slavery, nuclear weapons and nowdays climate change and financial speculation on food.
About "standing by as civilizations die", note that at least climate change and nukes endanger not just millions but our entire civilization.

Do you want some benevolent alien nannies to help us with these problems or do you want us to become an adult species on our own respectively if we fail destroy ourselves?

a species doesn't need warp drive to have aliens come to contact them.
Still not getting the rationale, are we? When a culture develops warp drive and wants to actually get out there it has to change and open itself to alien lifeforms. Its culture will massively change (humankind!) and in this time it is OK for the Feds to contact them. If you do it earlier the civilization is not ready yet (the episode First Contact).
Still waiting for an answer, do you want the alien nannies or not?


BillJ wrote: View Post
horatio83 wrote: View Post

The line is not arbitrary. When a species develops warp drive it has to face aliens and learn to deal with them.
If you drew the line earlier, e.g. when a species industrializes, aliens would have been ethically obliged to prevent the dozens of genocides, the development of sweat shops, slavery, nuclear weapons and nowdays climate change and financial speculation on food.
Seems like the Valakians were out facing aliens without warp drive.

There is some debate as to whether or not those who left Vulcan had warp drive when they founded the Romulan Empire. One series of books speculates that they used generational ships. The asteroid ship Yonada didn't have warp drive. The ancient Bajorans were able to make FTL trips by using solar sails.

And we saw races that were considered advanced that participated in all the things you list above.

Warp drive is an incredibly arbitrary line in the sand.

The smart way to go would be to evaluate in a culture by culture basis.
While "pre-warp" probably covers the vast majority of cases I agree that "out in space and culturally ready to meet new folks" should be the more general pattern.
Then again you need simple guidelines. Detect no antimatter, stay away. If you discover afterwards that they use a different form of FTL propulsion you can still make first contact. It's an asymmetrical issue, no harm done if you wait for days or even years but if you make first contact too early you can fuck them up seriously.

Since the top part was directed at me...


1. You seem to be assuming that FTL travel is automatically connected to a desire for contact with other races. That's a big assumption. Suppose it was developed by a race that had overcrowded their planet, as a way of settling on other uninhabited worlds far away? They might not be looking for contact at all, merely settlement. Others may do it to escape repression or because of a political split.(Like the Romulans fleeing Vulcan) On the other hand, a species WITHOUT FTL may be very interested in alien contact(like many on Earth are right now)

That's why it's arbitrary.


2. As for the nanny thing, it's a strawman. I'm not proposing that the UFP go out and search for problems to take care of. In "Dear Doctor," this was a situation they stumbled upon. And I don't consider it "nannyism" to help those in need, I consider it the right thing to do.(resources and capabilities permitting)
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