[sojourner]

publiusr wrote:

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Well the HLV isn't going to cost 20 billion. Thats a figure floated by its enemies within NASA. Also EELV launched modules will be even more cramped than Shuttle launched modules-

incorrect all current ISS components could have been launched on existing vehicles.

-where the shuttle did all the lofting, docking etc. HLV advocates were around long before it became pork. Selling lots of EELVs is pork too, especially if you are constantly launching say, 36 D-IV heavies or 24 F-9 heavies to do what one or two HLLVs can do.

24 f9H's for one or two HLLV's? The F9H will be capable of 53,000 kilograms. The SLS in it's final form will carry about 127,000kilograms. Do the math again and tell me which is cheaper per Kilo?

Five of them and ISS would have been finished with most of its useful life ahead of it, not behind it.

Ares V was going to be used for a piecemeal optical system: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9363

SLS can launch a goodly sized scope on one shot as well
http://www.stsci.edu/institute/atlast/
http://event.arc.nasa.gov/aresv/
http://www.futureinspaceoperations.c...20Ares%20V.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/co...elescopes.html
http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/b...%2008-03_A.pdf

Ms Porco from Cassini knows her stuff. Proton was a manned station launcher before placing a rover on the moon. As far as NRO giving those spysats away, you might want to look at the post of this JPL man:
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....41#post2028241

More http://www.thespacereview.com/article/150/1

This examination shows there is no significant cost savings by pursuing the use of numbers of medium-lift vehicles when compared to the development of a new, shuttle-derived heavy lift booster.

SLS will not always be in the development phase.

Yeah, actually, it will pretty much. remind us again when the first flight of block one is? and block 2?

Remember, we sustained over 100 STS missions that were HLVs in their own right It was just 90 to 100 tons of that was the orbiter. Now it will be all payload--payloads no one thought to ask for before the capability. People want to raid SLS budgets so they can keep launching Delta II sounding rockets and are being small minded and petty. That is what Carolyn refered to. delta II launches are like lollypops an alcoholic father gives to kinds every five minutes to keep their traps shut. Better to spend that money on a filling meal at the end of the day--even if that means listening to their squawks

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/ma...16-10/sl_porco

Now imagine if we had flown 100 Saturn or SLS missions instead of shuttle missions-- and imagine at what we might have up there now--maybe even something like this: http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=15169

Nice fictional model of a shuttle:
http://www.starshipmodeler.co/galler...snshuttle.html

Now imagine what we could have built with 1000's of cheaper launches. something like this perhaps:
http://www.nss.org/settlement/space/oneillcylinder.htm