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Old May 19 2012, 07:26 AM   #35
Magellan
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Re: So if the Axis won WWII, the Federation would have never existed?

sonak wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
you're talking about the WWII contest specifically, though. I'm referring to a Cold War afterwards, when Stalin is long gone. The Nazis will be limited in looking for allies by their racial supremacy beliefs.
The Nazi's were allied with Spain (Franco), so that opens up all of Latin America as possible allies (join the winning team). They also had Japan, so there's another, fairly large group.The United States had a Nazi party before the war, although Hitler apparently didn't get along with it's leader. I'm not sure if Canada had it own Nazi party, perhaps under a different name?

There was also a connection with certain Arab groups, don't know if that rose to "allied" status. The modern middle eastern Batha party is basically the Nazis under a different name.

So the Nordic/Aryan Nazis would/might have been at the top of the pecking order, but there was plenty of room for others.


right, but the point is that Nazism was an inherently supremacist/hierarchical ideology. Under it, for example, Slavic peoples were to serve as nothing more than slave labor for the Third Reich. And what about Blacks in Africa or in the U.S.? Which way do you think they're going to go?

So again, yes the Nazis had many potential allies, but Communism was an egalitarian universalist ideology(in theory if rarely in practice), while Nazism in theory and in practice was radically inegalitarian and supremacist. The Communists just have greater mass appeal if they can get their act together.

Remember also, that Communism can be democratic,(again in theory) which gives it more propaganda appeal. Nazism by its very nature is antidemocratic.
Black africa or gypsy's or any other minority frankly would not have mattered much in 1940's. Remember blacks were not exactly loved in Eastern Europe or the West either. Also Africa had a negligible industial base and virtually no money. even the whole population of a place like Africa in that time frame was less than Russia. Maybe 150 million people. Europe and East Asia were the centers of population in this time frame.

Also even though the Nazis espoused racial superiority of "Aryans" some Russians or Ukrainians or Turks are more "aryan" than others and collaboration could easily benefit them. The Nazi's managed to find collaborates in every country they conquered and forged an alliance with decidedly non-Aryan Japan. Pragmatism is ALWAYS a factor.
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