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Old March 30 2012, 03:23 AM   #50
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Brit wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Galekarens wrote: View Post

Yeah, well, from some TPTB's attitude re: KJ (that she was arrogant and "deserved" to die)
I'm not aware of a single author or editor at Pocket Books who thinks that Kathryn Janeway deserved to die for being arrogant. From where did you get this idea?
From witnesses that heard David Mack say this very thing at Fedcon in Germany last year.
So... hearsay? Hearsay about the word of a freelance novelist who did not actually write or edit the book in which Janeway was killed, and who is neither the editor nor the author of the Star Trek: Voyager novels?


MrJ wrote: View Post
Janeway didn't deserve to die because she was arrogant, psychotic, or inconstantly written (on the TV series). She deserved to die because of her actions in Endgame, when she willingly went along with her future self to change the timeline to suit her own selfish needs.
Actually, there's no indication that the Temporal Prime Directive extends to protecting the future as claimed by persons who've traveled back from it. How could it? From the Federation's POV, the future hasn't happened yet, and it's encountered many potential futures that have never come to pass even if nothing has happened to prevent it from coming to pass. The Federation's job is to protect its own past, not the relative pasts of people from the Federation's relative future.

Future!Janeway committed a crime, not Actual!Janeway.

And in the process wiped out countless lives, and caused the Borg invasion that got herself and Sixty Three Billion People killed
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Janeway was completely justified in her attack on the Borg Collective in "Endgame."

1. The Borg Collective had already initiated hostilities against the Federation, and had made it clear that it had no intention of relenting in its hostilities. In essence, a de facto state of war had existed between the Federation and the Borg Collective since 2365. The only time the Borg did negotiate a cease-fire agreement (which Janeway negotiated)? The Borg had reneged on it and attempted to kill or assimilate the Voyager crew. As such, any and all acts of combat undertaken against the Borg Collective were inherently justified.

2. This is particularly true of Janeway's actions in "Endgame," because her actions crippled the Collective's transwarp network -- thereby hindering the Collective's efforts at conquering untold numbers of worlds and saving untold numbers of lives.

3. So far as Janeway knew, based up intelligence provided to her by Future!Janeway, the neurolytic pathogen would disrupt the entire Collective and thereby dissolve it. That this plan failed was unanticipated; given Future!Janeway's superior technology and superior understanding of the Borg, it was a reasonable thing to think that the pathogen would be effective in dissolving the Collective. That it failed to do so is unfortunate, but not it does not make the attack one whose failure should have been anticipated.

4. That the Collective would decide to target the Federation for extermination for the attack in "Endgame" is simply not a reasonably foreseeable consequence. This was, in fact, a function of the Collective's true nature being much more emotional and less rational than previously understood.

5. The Borg incursion that killed Janeway in Before Dishonor was actually unrelated to the Borg Invasion depicted in Star Trek: Destiny. The cube in Before Dishonor was cut off from the rest of the Collective, and had developed an innovative new assimilation technology not shared with the rest of the Collective. The invasion fleet that arrived the next year had already been on its way before the Federation even encountered the cube from Before Dishonor -- in fact, that cube had already been in the Alpha Quadrant before "Endgame."

6. Saying that Janeway was responsible for the Borg Invasion is like saying that the British were responsible for the Nazi invasion of Poland, or that U.S. foreign policy was responsible for 9/11: It's complete bullshit.

The British shouldn't have imposed such harsh terms upon Germany with the Treaty of Versailles; this does not mean they were responsible for Adolf Hitler's decision to launch a war of aggression against the whole of Europe. The United States should not be propping up its puppet dictatorships in the Middle East; this does not mean that it was responsible for Osama bin Ladin's decision to launch the 9/11 attacks. Future!Janeway should not have altered her past in violation of Future!Federation law; this does not make her, or Actual!Janeway, responsible for the Borg Queen's decision to attempt to exterminate the Federation.

and the Typhon pact to form.
No, the Breen, Tzenkethi, Tholian, Gorn, Romulan, and Kinshaya governments are responsible for the formation of the Typhon Pact. With inspiration provided by Federation President Bacco, whose demand for their alliance against the Borg inspired them to realize that they were all stronger together than by themselves.

Besides, the formation of the Typhon Pact may yet not turn out to be a bad thing, if its moderate factions gain power.
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946

Last edited by Sci; March 30 2012 at 03:49 AM.
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