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Old February 9 2012, 04:02 PM   #62
The Overlord
Re: The highlights of Nemesis

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
Vasquez Rocks wrote: View Post
The sense I got from the movie and Shinzon (and this is just my feeling), is that he was planning on enslaving the Romulans after he used them to help him defeat Earth. So eventually the Remans would be the ultimate power on the planet(s) and in command, while the Romulans would be working for them. Poetic justice. Why kill them when he can make them slaves and make them feel what he felt.
Why not do that from the start and forget about destroying the Federation? There also no evidence he was planning that, so this just kinda guess work. That would have been nice to show, because him acting in Romulan Empire's interests didn't make sense.

Anyway you slice it, his motives for destroying the Federation were extremely vague and convoluted. He had motives for hating the Romulans, he even had motives for wanting Picard, but destroying the Federation, that made no sense.
Shinzon was insane. Raised in a mine, subjected to constant abuse and taught to hate what he is. If you've had any experience with mentally ill people, you'll find their motivations don't always stand up to scrutiny.
That's pretty weak in terms of motives, saying "he's insane" and not exploring it further. Madness has a method to it, even insane people fall into patterns. It makes him seem like a cartoon villain, he might as well been blowing up planets for fun.

Compare that to Khan, who has unstable, but there was a reasoning behind why he hated Kirk, Shinzon's hatred seems completely random.

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
IMO Shinzon wanting to wipe out Picard and humanity because they lived such privalaged lives while he suffered endlessly, and because he's a copy of a great man and would never fit in there, was believable. It didn't make rational sense, but it wasn't meant to.
Shinzon's Romulan overlords were living a privileged life off of his labor, why he doesn't he try kill them instead. If one nation enslaves another, they will hate the nation enslaving them, not some other nation that has nothing to do with it. I think this movie would worked better if Shinzon was trying to destroy the Romulans and the Enterprise had to stop him.

Heck I don't understand why the Remans would go along with Shinzon's plan or make him the leader, they have no beef with the federation and would upset if the romulans who tormented them were allowed to live, while Shinzon went off to kill some civilization who had nothing to do with their slavery. It doesn't make sense that the Remens would support Shinzon in this, they don't get anything out of it.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
Shinzon has every reason to hate the Romulans, much more so then Picard, so why would he do that in the first place?
To prove his superiority over his gaolers.

Picard is a 24th century Starfleeter. He doesn't hate anyone, although the Borg have severely tested his stoicism.

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Why wouldn't he try to kill them all instead?
Shinzon killed the whole Senate. The Romulan people were more like slaves of the state, like him. And the Remans.
And the average Federation citizen had nothing to do with his enslavement, if he's supposed to be insane, he wouldn't bother leaving Romulan civilians alone, he would want to kill them to.

He let the Romulan military live, despite the fact that the military would enforce his enslave, it was military troops that would act as his overseers. So allow them to live, doesn't make much sense.

Anyway you slice it, Shinzon's motives are overly convoluted.
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