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Old January 11 2012, 06:30 AM   #269
Saito S
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Re: What continuity errors are there on Voyager?

exodus wrote: View Post
Sorry but I think you're overlooking the bigger picture as well as taking the concept of "family" to literally.
I'm doing no such thing.

That the "family" (i.e. the crew) would be closer and more tight-knit due to the circumstances of the ship isn't my idea. This is what was said about VOY by the cast and producers when the show was first being created. The point I was making was that the sense of family, of closeness, wasn't any more prevalent outside of the main characters (and even within the main characters, it was a very mixed bag; some relationships were well-realized and made sense, others were left to languish) than it was on TNG. This is a flaw in VOY, since the supposedly greater degree of closeness, the heightened "sense of family", was something built into the premise itself, then dropped completely. And at the same time, DS9, a show that has no such requirement built into its premise, did a masterful job of creating, developing, and utilizing a large, diverse cast of "secondary" characters.

And nowhere did I imply that I in any way thought that the VOY crew would act like a literal family.
Janeway has to worry about the ENTIRE ship ALL THE TIME.
And other Starfleet captains don't?

That's a huge exaggeration anyway. Captains have a first officer, department heads, etc. for a reason. The well-being of every last person on the ship isn't just dumped squarely on one person's shoulders (as you yourself, bizarrely, point out, in the paragraph below). Yes, the captain has more such responsibilities than any other single person, but you are making it sound like Janeway was tasked with single-handedly running the entire ship.
She doesn't have time to get to know EVERYONE on it on a personal level. She has much bigger issues to worry about on a regular basis. The person in charge of getting to know the crew and how well they work or don't is Chakotay and the senior officers of that dept. Janeway is always on the bridge, she never eats in the mess hall and is only called to sections where her senior staff is.
As I pointed out above: so which is it? Is Janeway worrying about "THE ENTIRE SHIP ALL THE TIME"? Or is it that she can't be arsed to worry about the well-being of her crew, cause she's too busy and that's what Chuckles if for? Pick one, please.

That aside: Point out where I said "Janeway should know every member of her crew on a personal level." You seem to be pounding that point REALLY hard, and it's not even what I said in the post you quoted.

The first officer and the department heads would work with the captain to determine "how well they work." This is evidenced not only by common sense, but by the number of times the captain on a given series has been involved in a scene or sub-plot involving "what should we do with crewman X". Your assertions that Janeway is "always on the bridge" and "only called to sections where her senior staff is" are overly simplistic.
When did Janeway ever have the time to get to know the entire crew on a personal level? Even when she had time off, she'd be called to the bridge. In 7 years Janeway never had the time nor luxury to get to know the entire crew personally.
I dunno, how about all that time she spent goofing off in Fair Haven? Not only did she clearly have some time off (and that's hardly the only example; the idea that she never had any time to talk to people is bollocks), there's also the possibility that, if the creators of the show had decided to spend more time showing Janeway interacting with non-main-cast crew members, maybe we would have gotten fewer ridiculous holodeck scenarios.

And again, while I never said she needed to know EVERY last crew member on a personal level ("personal level" meaning she knows some things about their personal histories, their families, their interests, has spent lots of time with them, etc.), I do think she would (and, frankly, should) know every last crew member at least minimally, by the end of the second year or so. I don't expect her to be able to recite family histories off the top of her head, but she should know everyone's name and at least a little bit about them. It's only 150-ish people (and that number goes down with each season). "Good Shepard" was about her realizing that there were people that were "left behind"; individuals on her ship that didn't feel like they were "part of the family." Well, six freakin' years into the journey is a wee bit late to be hitting on that idea.

As for the amount of transfers/personnel changes that occured on Kirk's Enterprise, zar makes a good point about the concept vs. the reality. But even if they'd stuck to the concept 100%, there still would be more new crew coming onto the ship than in Janeway's case, i.e., at all. Voyager NEVER gets any crew rotation, so even a little bit would be more. And Kirk has way more people on his ship, too.
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