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Old January 7 2012, 06:26 PM   #313
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Harvey wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
The primary characteristics imputed to Kim in later seasons are a mild hypochondria and a mild resentment at not being promoted.
You'll have to refresh my memory as to where the hypochondria comes up. I don't remember it. As to being mildly resentful towards not being promoted, that would have been an interesting character trait had it actually been played (two lines of dialogue -- all I can remember -- don't count).
Kim was not a main character. But the mock character the Doctor creates in Author, Author shows the supposed hypochondria very clearly. The arguments with the Doctor as ECH and with Seven of Nine when his number in her minicollective for a project is dropped show the other.

Actually, Kim is also supposed to be both brilliant and a complete fuckup, but not in a comic Rodney McKay way. If Kim was really a main character this would have been a major problem in the show characterization.
When was he a complete fuck up? Kim's character was that he was brilliant at his work (as evidenced by joining the senior staff of a choice assignment right out of the Academy), but inept outside of it (as evidenced by his awkwardness with women as the show went on, but immediately illustrated in "Caretaker" when Quark almost talks him out of his money). Of course, we're also supposed to believe that he has a beautiful and attractive fiance back home. If that isn't geek wish fulfillment, it's certainly inconsistent writing.
Oh, my. Try rewatching Timeless, where Kim is somehow such a fuckup that not even the entire resources of Starfleet cannot help him to figure out a way to both save Voyager and get it home. All those years spent working on the problem, getting all that advice and second opinions, down the drain. As to his brilliance, there are of course numerous scenes, where he got to do the grunt work so that the main characters like Paris didn't sully our ears with technobabble.

Yeah, he was played as naive from beginning to end, except for the occasional outlier like "The Disease." Of course, in the true fashion of the series, Harry's mistake and Janeway's dressing down don't have any repercussions.
First, poor old Jammer's reviews are pretty crappy. The plot of Nightingale requires that not just Kim, who is emotionally invested in the people he saved, but the entire command staff of Voyager simply don't bother to question the Kraylor. This is an idiot plot, and as such is a major negative about the episode. Yet that review doesn't notice it? If you're going to ignore what I write, don't bother posting. Those reviews are third rate at best and do not constitute an authority to cite.

Second, what consquences do you expect? That Kim and Janeway will be at daggers' points the rest of the series? Or just something as simple as ginger efforts to reconcile? Since Kim is not a main character, the series isn't going to "waste" time on his relationship with Janeway. If he even has one. Yes, it's clear that he views Janeway as a mother figure, but it is never quite clear that Janeway feels anything reciprocal. And this is no accident. But you've made it clear to me that one reason the Kim character is so unpopular is that he has a kind of Mommy, and that isn't geek fantasy. Incidentally, Libby is not notably more beautiful than any other young woman in the Federation.

As for Chakotay, Beltran seems not to have wanted to do much besides his player persona, which by the way he does very well.
This comment is silly. From numerous interviews and convention appearances, its obvious Beltran wanted to be doing more, but the writers didn't give him the material.
Everything I've seen is that he wanted to do more scenes where he was dashing, sexy, commanding, maybe even macho, decisive, a man's man of bold action, the kind of man who has women like Seska adoring him. His player persona, which as I said still had no place on the series, because Janeway was the Captain, and the Captain is the primary decider, which means the usual center of action. Whether the second officer agrees or not, he obeys, which appears to be part of the problem with the Chakotay character, both for some viewers and Beltran.

Again, if you try to watch everyone on screen, when other dialogue and action is taking place, Beltran doesn't usually react if he doesn't have lines or action himself. People love to bash Wang's acting, but he usually acted like he was in the scene, even without lines or action. But then, most people talk about "wooden" performances, and to my eyes Wang wasn't that either. I almost never see criticism of Wang as hammy.
Sounds like a description of a bored actor to me, especially in light of Beltran's interviews during and after the series.
As I said, Beltran didn't seem to be interested in much beside his player persona. However, the differences between early and later Kim, who is a minor character after all, are still clearest if you watch, just as I was explaining here. Why quote this if you were going to ignore it? As it is, you're just confirming that you really agree with me about Beltran, right after you felt free to condescend for saying what you really think too.
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