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Old November 17 2011, 01:52 PM   #81
saturn5
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Once More, With Feeling: my big Buffy/Angel canon rewatch/reread/r

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Seven of Five wrote: View Post
I agree with your asssertion that Go Fish is a pretty decent episode, but its placement in the season was not well thought through. The Angelus arc in season two was pretty dark throughout, so I can't blame the producers for thinking we should stop for a pause before Becoming, as it was pretty relentless. I just wish they'd done something else really.

I don't know how much I agree with your thoughts on the attempted rape of Buffy. It's not something I gave much thought to when I first saw it, but you're right - the episode makes light of it. It is, in essence, a light episode though, so does that excuse it? I really don't know. Xander with speedos on certainly helps somewhat. Call me shallow.

What I do know, though, is that I was more bothered in season six when Spike attempted to rape Buffy. Yeah sure, he felt terrible, went off and got a soul after it all, but there seemed to be a total lack of followup to it in regards to the Buffy/Spike relationship. I suppose Seeing Red was a far more serious episode, during one of the most serious seasons of all. And season seven isn't reknowned for a depth of good writing. Buffy shouldn't have been so quick to defend Spike all the time though.
I don't agree that there wasn't a follow-up in regards to Buffy/Spike. It's what Beneath You is all about, they talk about it in Never Leave Me and Buffy even alludes to it briefly in Touched. I think the follow-up was done just right, one of the few times I can say that was the case. They just, thankfully, didn't beat us over the head with it in every episode in a "Lifetime special!" kind of way. (Interesting to note, some people think it wasn't enough, while there are others who think that the show made it look like Spike was the only one to blame for the way their relationship was in season 6 and complain that Buffy was let off easily and that there was no follow-up to her beating him up in Dead Things. Though that last bit is the only thing I agree with, they screwed up with the way they followed it in Older and Far Away.)

Spike deciding to get his soul back ("to be the kind of man who would never...") was a huge deal for Buffy, and frankly, if the show had made her act like the AR was unforgivable despite it, I would have found it an incredibly jarring double standard, considering that Angel was completely forgiven in season 3 for everything he did in season 2, including the murder of Jenny and a bunch of other people, just because he had his soul forced on him again. In addition, season 7 didn't spend more than a couple of episodes on the issue of Willow's guilt for having murdered two people, tried to kill her friends and to destroy the world. Then there's Andrew, who was forgiven for murdering his best friend only because he finally managed to admit his guilt.

The fandom seems to treat the AR in Seeing Red as if it happened in real life, while almost everything else is treated much more lightly, like something from the fictional land. I think this is probably because it was much closer to life than, say, Willow violating Tara's mind to keep her in a relationship with her, since we don't have magic in real life, and because, unlike so many other disturbing moment on the show, which either had a Gothic feel to it, or were treated in a light comedic way, that scene in Seeing Red was filmed very realistically. In real life, I agree that it would be disturbing to have someone forgive their rapist, but it's a whole different thing in the context of Buffyverse, where soul/no soul is such a huge issue, where redemption is one of the big themes, and where almost every character has at some point been guilty of murder/attempted murder, manslaughter, rape/attempted rape, mind rape, or starting an apocalypse, and most of the time they either got away with it or were forgiven rather quickly.

Anyway, I love the way Buffy/Spike was developed in season 7. It's one of the best things about the season. Sadly a bunch of other things weren't that good... like the whole arc of the First and what the hell its plan was, what the hell it wanted to do with Spike, etc. Which was so disappointing, in the first few episodes I was really pumped up and expected the First to be one of the best villains ever. Its concept was really interesting and scary. The season started really promising and was shaping up to be great, and then it gets into a slump in the middle - from Bring on the Night, when Buffy starts giving a lot of boring speeches - and never quite recovers. And most of the episodes, despite having some great scenes or occasional great dialogue, were either flawed or just missing *something*. Except CWDP, which is one of my all-time favorites.

But we'll get to talk more about that when we get to seasons 6 and 7 (though at the speed I've been writing these reviews, that might not happen before 2013 ).

saturn5 wrote: View Post
This is interesting:
The 'Do you know what time it is?' line is very clever, the same words as Joyce says in the movie but with a completely different meaning.
Can you remind me how it was used in the movie? I've seen it a long time ago and I don't remember much.
In the Buffy movie Joyce is played by porn-star Candy Clark and when Buffy comes home late from Slaying she asks her 'What time is it?' not because she's concerned but because her own watch has stopped.
I don't think they 'gloss over' the rape at all, it's the trigger for Spike getting his soul back he feels so guilty. There is no equivalent between Buffy wailing on Spike in the previous episode, they hit each other all the time. There is a great essasy waiting to be written 'Rape in the Buffyverse', by my reckoning she's been raped/sexually assaulted 7 times, by Xander in The Pack, the Master in Prophecy Girl, Larry in Halloween, Cal in his car and the swimteam in Go Fish, Spike in Seeing Red and the Shadowmen's demon in Get it Done. Given Joss' supposed feminist characteristics he puts his heroines through an awful lot. Not to mention Cordy who never meets a demon she doesn't get knocked up by. But the Spike/Buffy scene has the greatest impact because it's REAL, you could actually imagine this happening between boyfriend and girlfriend.
That said, 2 of the rapes in the Buffyverse are actually carried out by women, Willow on Tara and Faith-as-Buffy on Riley.
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