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Old October 3 2011, 02:33 AM   #29
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Mass, volume, and Warpdrive question.

sojourner wrote: View Post
And if the camera can be at any speed with no reference points, how can you pin down the speed of the Enterprise?
Exactly, how can you? Neither of our points of view have concrete evidence.
What was your point and what was mine?

sojourner wrote:
If we were to rely on interpreting the visual effects then we would have to admit that most of the time we never saw ships going faster than light speed in all of Star Trek.
Your point was that the external VFX shots of TOS show the ship never traveling faster than light most of the time. Since you're unable to tell how fast the camera is traveling at, then how can you claim that point? If you're asking me, I think you can't. All you can do is look at the VFX with the dialogue and see if they mention how fast they are going.

blssdwlf wrote:
In TOS, there isn't anything specific to mass or volume and warp speed. But, warp drive is affected by large masses/gravity. The times we see the Enterprise go to Warp inside a star system, her "actual" speed is alot slower than if she was flying between star systems. The effect is seen the greatest in "The Voyage Home" where at Warp 2, the Klingon BOP is no where near the speed of light as it breaks orbit. (So in TOS at least, warping into a planet would make the ship slower than light by the time she impacted.)

I haven't watched enough of TNG/DS9/Voy/ENT to give you a better answer other than in ENT one of the episodes it had hinted at a modified freighter with souped up engines was necessary to haul large cargo.
My point was that the times we do see VFX+dialogue of the TOS ships near a star or going from Earth to the sun, the actual speeds are a lot slower than if they were flying between systems. "The Voyage Home" is a good example of warp next to a planet and the result is slower than FTL. (And I consider that a TOS movie.)

sojourner wrote: View Post
If you watch "The Voyage Home", between the point where the BOP goes to "warp speed" and the time we see the BOP break orbit at "warp speed" two minutes of dialogue take place. That's got nothing to do with time travel. The time travel bit came up on a different part of the discussion about factoring in the mass of the whales and water.
Christopher said "travel time", not "time travel".
Ah. Then I'll amend that to:

If you watch other TOS episodes that involve warping around inside a star system, the ship's actual speed is consistently slower than if they were warping around between systems. Perhaps it is just coincidence, but those "speed of plots" line up for those episodes in TOS.

How TNG and later productions hold up, I haven't watched enough to guess.
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