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Old September 24 2011, 06:45 AM   #58
Saito S
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Re: Why are the TOS movies better then the TNG movies?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Saito S wrote: View Post
But yes, either way, what I meant was the definition I just used. "Contact" would be an example of it, as would "2001"; many hard sci-fi novels would be as well. Star Trek sometimes treads on this ground. Star Wars, on the other hand, is very much NOT it.

Just to give a better idea of what I meant
Yeah, in the end I think I get what you're saying. I think it's this:

TMP is the Trek movie that tries most to be epic.
I agree with this 100%.

However, I think a case could be made that in going on an adventure to allegedly search for God, The Final Frontier may have had a pretension of being really epic, but in a way that was a complete belly flop and didn't seem epic at all.

Whether the film franchise would have benefited from other entries trying to be as epic as TMP, I'm not sure. Maybe, but also maybe not. It would have depended a lot on the execution. My gut tells me that the market may not have been receptive for an epic from the Star Trek franchise though. At least not a serious one.
You might be right about that last point, sadly. That's part of why TMP is a shame in a way. Despite how much money it made, it was critically something of a flop, if I recall correctly, and deservedly so in my opinion. I think it was part of why they ran the other direction with TWOK. Now, I have no problem with the concept of simply GOING in that direction, but they never went back. I don't mind some - or even most - of the Trek films being adventure stories, but I would have liked to see ONE more stab at the deeper, more challenging sci-fi story on the big screen. Preferably more than one, but even one would have been nice. As you said with TFF's premise, there were little inklings of more complex, more "epic" sci-fi concepts here and there - the Genesis planet and its link to Spock in TSFS, the Nexus in GEN, the fact that the Borg had - for just a moment anyway - actually succeeded in assimilating Earth and re-writing history... the problem is that these things are simply used as vehicles to further the adventure, and little more (or, in some cases, how they were used doesn't even matter cause the movie itself was so bad, i.e. TFF, or the concept had potential but then the execution was bungled, i.e. GEN). Ah well, what might have been.
xortex wrote: View Post
They still serve popcorn at movies, not lobster. But I think high concept stories is what Trek is all about. Trek 09 is a Nemisis version of Khan. Oh but I forgot, girls (the controllers of the known universe) don't like to think. They like to feel.

Wait, no...

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