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Old September 5 2011, 09:21 PM   #676
Rush Limborg
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

I can't imagine that every agent, or every person who thinks like one of them, was eliminated in the Battle of the Omarion Nebula.
Of course not! Garak's alive, isn't he?

Nerys, I have been sadly neglectful in not reading this section sooner. Very well-written and literary, as always.

Specific thoughts: you convey quite well the consequences of prejuduce--not just the girl (whom I'm guessing is the Bajoran girl whose name sadly escapes me...?) mistaking Istep's legit actions for..."playing doctor" in the most contemptable sense of the word--but also in Yejain's attitudes towards humans. While not specifically prejudicial--he does truly respect Spirodopoulos--he still finds great difficulty assimilating the oddities of humanity.

There's the many different "dialects" (), but his reflections on a human's unpredictability are particularly interesting. I wonder--is he even aware of the "hawk-dove" gap among humans? Because he seems to be interpereting the different policies of "appeasement/acommodation" and (to use a bad general term) "neoconservatism" as simply two elements of one style of policy, as opposed to two different styles whose respective use depend on the current leadership of the society.

A note: funny you and Nasat should bring up autism--

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
Yejain's mind is very multi-faceted and highly structured, and that complexity is captured very well in your writing. There’s a cool, methodical order in there. In some ways it seems slow, and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, I mean he has an interestingly measured outlook. I also concur with Gul Re'jal that Yerain seems not to assume that he has to reach a judgement or conclusion right away. He makes the contemplation and the measurement itself his concern rather than push himself to a "result" too swiftly. Which isn't to say he hasn't got a purpose in mind - we can see how displeased and even truly incomprehending he is of any exercise without sense (hence his condemnation of the OO). So he certainly doesn’t make the contemplation an end in itself. But he holds the need for it to lead somewhere at bay, and allows himself to work through the problem efficiently. I'm even getting the sense that he's perhaps equivalent to some humans with autism; that is, very rigid and measured but actually in other ways highly flexible and insightful, so long as he has his framework to steady himself. It’s almost like he’s capable of seeing the “big picture” that others might miss, but through the prism of the rules and boundaries rather than thinking “outside the box” in the manner of a Human or other less rigid intellect. I think the last few paragraphs reinforce this; they make it clear that his appreciation and commitment regarding order extends beyond his own position in the scheme of things and into a strong sense of the greater community. I really appreciate that because I find it a fascinating mirror to my own sense of community which is far more chaotic. Seeing a similar appreciation grounded in a much more rigid framework is really insightful and wonderful grounds for an alien reaction that’s still familiar to me.
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
It's interesting that you bring up the autism comparison...while the rigidity, by human standards, could seem to lead that way, in contrast, the hierarchical instinct strongly impacts social relationships and makes knowing the rules a bit more of an inborn thing for Cardassians than it is to humans. I actually think to a Cardassian, a human could look as if he or she were a little bit on the autism spectrum due to the failure to give some of the "right" tones, gestures, and responses according to various spoken and unspoken cues.
As someone on the Spectrum myself (Aspie, BTW), I find this most fascinating. Perhaps it is this which helps me enjoy Vulcans and Cardassians so much.

While I can get a bit "motormouthed" when talking about things I like (which helps explain my feelings of identification with Bashir and Ezri), still, as you've no doubt noticed, when I analyze things, I really analyze things. And Yejain's rigidity is definitely something I can understand....

As to learning disabilities and even the Cardassian equivalent of autism spectrum disorders, you actually have met one Cardassian with a learning disability already, and that's Gul Berat. If you compensated for the differences in his alien psychology, Gul Berat would show clear indications of ADHD. (Did you notice Yejain trying to steer Berat's interest towards the paperwork, a bit? He knows his gul needs a little bit of encouragement for such tasks. )
Nice touch. For me, it depends on the paperwork....

(Funny, I believe you once noted in a discussion with me how you saw Ezri as possibly having something akin to ADHD. It's interesting, aside from her wandering attention in the beginning of "Shadows And Symbols" ("I-I mean, at least I think it's Emony.... Hi, Jake!"), there's her noted hatred of company paperwork in "Prodigal Daughter"....)

About Daro, I didn't want Daro to sound bigoted or like he was looking at humans as the be-all-end-all, as someone like Picard seemed to want. So I'm glad that part came off well to you. Daro sees strengths and weaknesses in both ways, but I get the feeling that he secretly enjoys the uniqueness of all the different species he's encountering. He's an academic by nature--not quite the analyst Yejain is, not as much the need to acquire every fact so that it can be put in its proper order; I think for him, it's a quiet curiosity for the sake of it.
It'd be interesting to see more of this. Do you see Yejain as thinking more like a scientist, whereas Daro is more akin to a philosopher?
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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