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Old August 5 2011, 11:12 PM   #291
Saito S
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
You do realize that "having a no-win situation" doesn't mean "being incompetent spineless cowards", right? Not that I don't already know the answer.
Ahh, but in order to address this fact, that one does not have to be an incompetent spineless coward to fail at times, one would be required to stray into the dreaded middle ground.
Anwar wrote:
And yes, the crux of the matter with newtype_alpha WAS that they could fight the Borg.
I'm hesitant to just take your word for it, but here: suppose newtype does hate 8472 SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they could trash the Borg. Even if that's true... so what? He's entitled to his opinion. No one is trying to assert that NO ONE EVER hated VOY or species 8472. That would be silly; for every show, and every aspect of a show like Trek, there is bound to be someone out there who loves it, and someone who hates it.

But newtype (assuming you are even characterizing his stance on 8472 correctly) isn't here! He isn't involved in this discussion! You cannot take something that ONE PERSON said, and ascribe that viewpoint to entire swaths of people.

Hmm...why does this feel so familiar...
Show me an episode of TOS, TNG or DS9 where Kirk, Picard or Sisko run into a world under attack from some enemy and they just decide to leave them to their fates either because they were scared or because they didn't think they could do anything.
Even if there aren't any, why does that mean VOY can't do it? And do you really think that if Picard and the Ent-D came across, say, 3 cubes trashing some poor sap's homeworld, they would be like "Ok! Arm all weapons, let's get em!"? They wouldn't be able to do much either.

And again with the extremes! The only two options in your world are "They win the day, 100%, everything is great, the bad guys are stopped!" or "They LOSE, because they SUCK, and they're SPINELESS COWARDS and EVERYONE DIED."

"Voyager doesn't stop the Borg or save the entire planet" does not have to mean "Voyager is completely ineffectual and ever last member of that species is assimilated." There are DOZENS of ways that a story along those lines could go (no I'm not going to list them all out, and no, failing to do so doesn't make me a hater).
RyuRoots wrote:
And hell! Even if I acknowledge all three (and I don't), that would be three people for your alleged huge, extremely loud hatedom that doesn't exist.
Ah yes, the Hatedome! I hear it's being renovated!
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