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Old July 24 2011, 09:28 PM   #86
Luminus
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Having hull armor doesn't mean anything for Trek ships, never has never will.
Is that why the ablative hull armor that Voyager gets from the future was able to successfully shake off weapons fire from 3 borg cubes in "Endgame"?


zar wrote: View Post
So what, there is no point of reference. The other cubes weren't called "Strategic" or "Class 1" so these words are meaningless when comparing the cubes. Even if we assume, for example, that a higher "class" number means a weaker ship, it's still useless information because the other cubes could just as easily be "Class 15" as "Class 1".

This is the line where the "class 4 tactical" was introduced:

SEVEN: This is a class 4 tactical vessel, heavily armed. The central plexus is protected by multi-regenerative security grids. We'd be detected long before we could reach it.

How can anyone look at this line and claim that it's describing a ship that's weaker than what we're used to?
That's what confuses me so much. In what universe are the words "heavily armed" ever considered as describing something that is weak?

zar wrote: View Post
There's no official reference to "Assimilation cubes" (I'm not sure where that term comes from, the Armada video game maybe?), and tactical cubes were never seen simultaneously with the original cubes for comparison. All we know is that the tactical was a "heavily armed" version of cube.
Tactical cubes are the same size as the other cubes seen on Voyager. You can tell this easily, because Voyager happened to pass over or under a cube in "Endgame" and in "Unimatrix Zero." The cubes are clearly the same size. I gave you a source to the designer himself saying the it's just a cube with a flack jacket and there's still a debate? Do I have to go to Memory Beta and get ship dimensions to put this one to rest?

Well, it looks like someone beat me to it...

Anwar wrote: View Post
We don't know that the Tactical Cube was a heavily armed version of the Assimilation Cube, we just know that it's a heavily armed Borg ship. Nothing in the dialog compares it to an Assimilation Cube and the visuals of it in comparison to VOY have it as MUCH smaller than an Assimilation Cube.

A Tactical Cube is 1500 M in diameter, an Assimilation Cube is 3040 M in diameter, the Tactical Cube is 1/4 the total size of the one from "Q Who" and BOBW.

http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison/

As for why the Borg only send one Cube at a time: The writers overpowered the Borg, realized it and hoped we'd never complain about it. They got lucky.
Okay, now we're bringing out the dimensions. Thanks you for that link. Unfortunately for you, it only proves my point. I read the article and looked at the ship sizes, THEN, I clicked on the source link like the site's author suggests. Here is what I found:

Tactical Cube length: approx. 3000m
Cube variant 2 length: approx. 3000m
Cube variant 1 length: "a huge vessel" ??? Not seen again, after BOBW.

Cube variant 1 is the largest cube we've ever seen (credit to Anwar). The speculation is that borg cubes grow as new technology is added and since this cube was traveling to the Alpha Quadrant, it had grown in that time. This can actually be confirmed by Enterprise's "Regeneration" episode and TNG's "Descent" episodes.

That is why that cube in the chart is so large.

Case closed.
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