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Old July 24 2011, 01:50 AM   #257
Gul Re'jal
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Location: Gul Re'jal is suspecting she's on the wrong space station
Re: ST: Shaping a Cardassian - "Strength Without Sacrifice is Useless"

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
The Rathosians...well, given what they were presented with--a duplicitous, cowardly Federation that would rather watch them die for science than render assistance, versus the Cardassians who were willing to take a moral stand and fight to save them--they made the right decision and the Federation deserves all the egg in its face that it can possibly get.
That's why Rathosians don't want to have anything to do with the Federation.
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
And YAY for Yassel and Aladar!!! I'm so glad Aladar got to be in the Damar Guard--and now he and Yassel are dating. I was also surprised by Yassel's father...given her "disability" I actually expected him to be even more harsh on her than he might be on any of his other children. But he surprised me, in a good way.
If her father cared about her "disability" that much, I don't think he would want her to join the military, and not any of his other children.
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
As for what's happened to Jarol...I have mixed feelings on that. I had hoped that Jarol would come to regret her past without there being some sort of mitigating factor in the way. But, I can say that the research I did on traumatic brain injuries did show that personality changes could result (and also that coma and subdural hematoma, both of which she experienced, point to a serious injury).
I did the same research when reading about brain injury, coma, how long being in a coma is "safe" (there's still a change that a patient wakes up and goes on with his or her life) and possible results of such a trauma.

And I suspected that you wouldn't like it
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
But it may mean that Jarol paid for all that she did and all that she had become.
I don't think so. Her change of thinking and feeling makes it actually worse for her, because she still carries her guilt and now that guilt is much heavier than it would be if there was no shift in her personality. Everything is stripped of "reasons" and naked facts are left--facts that she doesn't deny, doesn't try to justify and doesn't feel like they should be justified in any way.

In the end she cannot come to terms with all that and she will never rest.
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
There's just one thing I question, though. How does this test, and this theory, account for the choices people make in life? Her baseline is Jarol as she was right before the injury. Not Atira Darok, the teenager, before she made her decision to join the military. How can she assess, without that, whether what's happened is a wholly unnatural thing, and not a "wiping of the slate" back to what she should have been, without all of the corruption she took into herself?
Err, how can someone tell what Jarol should be, if her life was different (except me, that is )? How could anyone know that?

The test doesn't tell what one could be or should be. I imagine this is some kind of visual/auditory test that records brain reactions and facial expressions, and any other visual reactions to images and sounds. Those could be any photos/sounds of the world and abstract shapes/colours and abstract sounds (no doubt prepared with a particular thing in mine by specialists, not just "some messy stain on a cardboard" or a random noise).

So it would be about how one sees and reacts to particular stimuli.

The final result of the test after the near-death experience is dramatically different than the last test Jarol was subjected to. Such changes would not happen, if a patient "changed his/her mind," or his/her views would change, as some parts of the test don't test conscious thinking, eg. it's not a choice how you react to suffering. Even if you turn a blind eye to it, you would feel guilt about it somewhere deep inside (IF you have empathic abilities).
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
As an example...what would Fatret make of it if she were presented with my AU Dukat as a patient? (Not because AU Dukat is "crazy," but simply so she can check and make sure his meds are still OK.) Given what she knows about Gul Dukat, how would she explain him, his thought patterns, and his behavior? What would she say about how they do or do not intersect with Gul Dukat's in some form or fashion? I know what my rationale and my theory is, and why I felt justified writing AU Dukat the way I did, but I'm wondering what Fatret would make of those two, if she could talk to one, and then talk to the other.
There would be some common points in their personalities, I suppose the most "basic" ones, but generally they would be different people.

Fatret wouldn't try to explain anything. She would compare the results and see that they are different. A lot like twins separated at birth. AU Dukat and Gul Dukat have common genetics, but nothing else. They come from different worlds, different circumstances and different environments. I'd have to search for a name, as it was a long time since I had that at school, but one psychologist assessed that our personalities are determined by three factors and genetics is the least important one. In other words, apart from diseases (and we're not talking about Dukats' mental condition here), we are not born good or bad. Anyone can be good or bad, depending on the surroundings, environment and how they are raised.

(I don't mean here that living in so-called free world makes you good, an in totalitarian system a baddie, because in free world you can choose what you want to do, while in a totalitarian system the system makes you a torturer. Totalitarian systems are full of good people, and a torturer enjoying his work can be easily found in a free world.

The "surroundings and environment" relate to home and other close surroundings. If your parents treat animals like things, it's very possible that they pass that attitude to you and you will see animals as things, too, and never want a pet; and refuse such a request from your child, because "dogs just make mess and you have to spend your money to feed them.")
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
(Or maybe, it would be better to ask how Fatret would explain Gul Dukat, given that AU Dukat is the good one.)
But why would she try to explain any of them? She would see two men with the same genetics and very little else in common. If any of them lived in environment more similar to the other's one, they would be more similar, but their worlds couldn't be more different. That's the theory she works with.

Some very basic traits were present in both of them, but I think the point of divergence starts with the faith. One believes there's someone much bigger than him; the other one came to a conclusion that nothing is bigger than him.
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