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Old July 5 2011, 04:11 AM   #31
Christopher
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

sosolidshoe wrote: View Post
I'm not so convinced to be frank. The Borg were always presented as a fusion of organic and technological, and it was that fusion which defined them. In BD, there were essentially no Borg as we had seen them, there was a sentient cube puppeteering a number of disconnected drones and Janeway; it was not a Collective. EDIT: Indeed is it not specifically stated in First Contact that neither the Borg's organic nor technological components can function without the other?
Except we know the organic components can be separated from the technological and still survive -- look at all the drones who've been liberated, from Picard to Seven to various others. So why can't the reverse be at least possible? Sure, it would be an exceptional circumstance, but that's exactly what BD established it to be. It was very explicitly not the way Borg technology normally works; it was a mutation, a last-ditch adaptation in order to survive.


In addition, the Borg's nanotechnology has always been presented as Constructors, rather than Smart Matter. By which I mean; the individual nanoprobes are nonsentient robots designed to construct or reconstruct macro-scale technology according to preset programming or direct instruction. The technology itself is not actually made up of nanoprobes.
Do we know that for a fact? I don't recall it ever being explicitly stated. If universal assemblers can form themselves into any desired construct, then how could you tell the difference between a conventional macroscopic device and one made of nanotech "cells"?

And is it even a reasonable conceit to assert that they aren't made of nanites? The problem with the Borg is that, as originally conceived, they were a rather backward concept. The idea of cyborgs being just humanoids with clunky machine parts stuck on them was outdated from the very beginning. When ST finally caught up with the concept of nanotechnology in FC and VGR, all they could do was tack it onto the macroscopic technological approach they'd started with, creating an awkward hybrid. But even so, FC certainly gave me the impression that the Borg components on the assimilated Enterprise crew were grown from the nanites injected into the crewmembers. They did what they could to retcon the silly walking junkyards of TNG into something more biomechanical.


Regardless, it was actually the horribly contrived "trauma" nonsense I was referring to, the concept that the big bad Enterprise was so mean to the poor little cubie-woobie that it somehow metamorphosed into a sentient creature bent on revenge. First, refer to the argument I make above as to why I find that dubious, but second and more than that, we've seen cubes "experience" circumstances as "traumatic", perhaps even moreso, than were presented in Resistance, yet none of them turned into melty-walled emos.
I have no idea where you're getting "emo" from. You seem to have a misconception about what the word "trauma" means. It doesn't mean hurt feelings, it means serious physical and/or psychological injury. It's the Greek word for "wound." (Watch any police procedural or medical show and you'll hear all sorts of talk about blunt-force trauma, traumatic brain injury, and the like. Trauma is serious business.) Anything that is violently attacked and nearly destroyed is certainly traumatized, in the physical sense and presumably in the psychological sense as well (like a soldier suffering post-traumatic stress disorder -- for your own sake I certainly hope you wouldn't be so foolish as to call one of them "emo" to their face).

And what happened in "Resistance" was a new and different situation from previous Borg defeats. Previously, the organics and technology were destroyed together, or some organics were liberated while the technology was destroyed. This is a case where the organics were destroyed but the technology survived intact. So it's not unreasonable that the outcome might be different. The way I read the situation was that the cube was nearly destroyed and did what Borg always do in a crisis: it adapted. That's what the Borg do. When they're defeated, they adapt to the problem and come back again. Since this was a different situation than we've seen before, it's natural that the resultant adaptation would be one we hadn't seen before.



Anywho, I've just finished Greater Than The Sum, and my sense of despondency has lifted enough after the experience to attempt the Destiny trilogy next. I really enjoyed this one; the technobabble was much more plausible, the characterisation was much more consistent, and the concept of planetary geological processes resulting in evolved intelligence was inspired. Furthermore, it felt like a Star Trek story, although I realise that's a subjective concept.
I'm glad you liked it.

Hell, I wish they'd put this story up on the big screen in place of Nemesis
Nahh, I liked Nemesis. Except for the dune-buggy chase and the made-up-particle-of-the-week weapon.
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