Thread: Mass Effect 2
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Old April 4 2011, 09:11 AM   #1395
Location: Starbase Houston
Re: Mass Effect 2

Skywalker wrote: View Post
I'm starting to wonder if he's actually played either game. Every question he's asked could have been easily answered by just paying attention to the games.
I'm starting to wonder if you understand that these are criticisms not "questions". There is a validity issue to the story that starts boldly with ME2. It's suspension of belief and it becomes more difficult to sustain the more they add on.

Try and keep up Skywalker. I know it sounds fully explained to you but I'm looking much much deeper than I think you're contemplating right now.

Reverend wrote: View Post
The Citadel is the hub of the network and can control ALL the relays at once. That doesn't mean once deactivated, an individual relay can't be reactivated. Hell, we know they can because it's been done several times, it's how humanity started colonising deep space and what caused the First Contact Wars. Firstly the Charon relay was reactivated after being dormant for an extended period of time (so much that it accumilated enough frozen gas to be mistaken for a small moon.) Later, trying to reactivate a relay was what caught the attention of the turians who chose to open fire on the human team, assuming they didn't know what they were tampering with. I think it's safe to say that the Reapers would be fully capable of reactivating the relays one pair at a time even without the Citadel.
That doesn't make any sense at all. We know the Reapers used the Citadel to isolate the Prometheans all over the Galaxy, if they could have reactivated them locally ( The Prometheans) and not be overridden by the Citadel don't you think they would have? Clearly there is a Citadel override. The Premise is simple. You have the program from Vigil and you now know there is central control, hacking seems regular tech and there is definitely a way to interface with the software.

They need the relays to cross intra-galactic distances in a reasonable amount of time, yes, but relays aren't the only means of FTL propulsion. It's all on the codex.
I specifically said that normal FTL isn't going to decelerate thrust millions of times what the Relays are transporting you.
The Normandy traveled some 15,000 lightyears to the Galactic Core in 2 or 3 seconds. That's...2,154,338,931.1653066 times the Speed of light. Now you keep saying they have other means of FTL, but the first game tells us the Protheans were very effectively cut off once those relays went down.

So the Wiki says 12 lightyears a day. (That's REALLY GOOD SPEED.) That's 165,000 TIMES faster! than normal FTL That's like a butterfly trying reverse thrust from Hypersonic speeds. You WILL end up on the other side of the Magellanic Clouds trying to stop yourself. (IF you didn't have another relay to give you the appropriate negative velocity)

In Star Trek Warp 9.975 gets you the same distance in half the time. SO it doesn't make sense that you propose that shutting down the network would isolate the Current Galactic inhabitants to their local star systems. In fact it doesn't make any sense at all that with FTL that the Prometheans were "isolated" as described by the wiki and as I remember from Vigil's monologue. They must have not had FTL or a far more limited form than even the current Milky Way Civilizations.

This was specifically addressed by Anderson. A lot of it went missing through illegal salvage operations, the Keepers somehow managed to spirit away some more and out of what was left, there wasn't anything that (officially at least) could prove that it *wasn't* a Geth ship.
Spirited away is right.
And they just...accept it. That's what boggles my mind. This is a mystery. You've been told that the Citadel isn't what it appears to be...and you don't believe it...yet these strange creatures just "spirited away" Massive portions of an attacking ship. (Are you kidding me?) That's a conspiracy. Do you know of any government that wouldn't seriously start tearing apart such a station immediately to find out the truth?

So in the end it's a massive contradiction.
They just had large enough pieces to reconstruct it's weapons in Two short years? I' don't think so. Reconstructing the space shuttle after it's failed reentry took longer than that, just IMAGINE trying to reverse engineer any it's main engines from those scraps? Two years means you had a complete example of the weapon. That's the contrivances that make piecing together these events unlikely.

How is it contrived? It's totally reasonable that a government that has a history of interfering to avoid conflict at almost any cost would look at the evidence, decide that the Geth are the true threat that all the reaper mumbo jumbo is just the ramblings of one over excitable human.
But that's just it...
Even if you think it's reasonable for the Alien Council to be stuck in Denial, its not a human history of Denial in the Renegade story line that is the problem. They wanted action no matter the consequences of entering Terminus...and now...they are just like the council....But even the council accepted the logic and evidence post Sovereign attack so...still a contrivance.

there's no concrete, verifiable evidence to support the Commander's story...until Arrival anyway. In the mean time it's much more politically convenient to blame it all on Saren and the Geth.
Oh boy...that's not true. There is a mountain of evidence.
The mere existence of that VAST UNDERGROUND facility, the Archives, the Program on Sheppard's Omni Tool, THE CONDUIT on the Citadel and the Conduit on Illos and Stasis Pods at Illos verifies that the Prometheans were attempting to avoid their own extinction.

No, that was the cryonic systems for the base staff. Those thing ran out of power after just the first few centuries. Listen for yourself. As for Vigil, it stands the reason it'd spent most of the last fifty millennia in a state of dormancy, so the mere act of reactivating even for such a short time probably hastened it's deterioration. If left undisturbed it may have lasted another few millennia and concerns if someone else had turned up and triggered it prior to Saren and Shepard then it's possible it would have been dead *long* before the Normandy arrived.
It said "my energy reverses were dwindling after the "few" centuries it took to wipe out the Prometheans. He essentially saved himself and 12 top researchers. They must have restored his energy reserves to survive the 50,000 years. The rest of the technology was functioning perfectly well. A Mass Relay, Elevators, Force fields even lights...after 50,000 years.

They specifically said the VI was badly damaged and wouldn't last long. We no next to nothing about the state of the databases beyond what Vigil verbally conveyed and that file that re-opened the relays. For all we know it sacrificed whole swaths of detailed data in order to preserve the most vital basic facts needed to help anyone that turned up. Hell, even if the database was intact there'd be no way to decipher it without the VI interface to interpret.
But that's the thing isn't? We don't know that all.
What we do know is that we have living quarters, Stasis Pods, Computers everywhere on Illos and we were capable of interfacing with them to open doors and access ways. It the archaeological find of all time. It's the City of the Dead. How unlikely is it that Liara is now obsessed with the Shadow Broker rather than on Illos deciphering that data. It's a story-line that takes us away from the obvious. There's no reason that having spent the last 50 years in research that they should suddenly deign upon her a social life. It's all contributing to this kinda mass ignorance. There's a mystery and seemingly no one is interested in solving it despite the obvious peril. Every step of the way we're gaining more information but no one is doing anything with it.

Regardless we clearly have a Rosetta Stone on Illos.
If that's not good enough Shepard himself is the Rosetta Stone with the Cipher.
And there must be a working Beacon somewhere given what Vigil has told us.

Really? Oh well if you say so. Did you even play ME1?
Are you kidding me.
You just posted a You Tube Video where Vigil says almost Verbatim that One Reaper wouldn't be a problem.
On top of that if you close the Relay or destroy it they'll never finish the Reaper at all since the main ingredient seems to be homosapien....

It's not vague at all, it's pretty damned explicit. You even see a vision of them approaching the relay. Hell, at the end of ME2 you even see them heading for the galaxy's from the void.
I understand how you've connected the dots but that a vision and Reapers siting outside the Galaxy with no apparent movement (which is what I remember) is far from explicit. See I had no way of knowing the vision was real time, past present of future. I didn't get a handle on the 2 Days remark from Sheppard or a perspective of the count down at the end. That's why I play multiple times.

Regardless the question remains if the Relay was destroyed How can they arrive in the system... I suspect this will be one of those funky/odd continuity problems like how did the Conduit transport the mako through the Walls of the Citadel to the Presidium.

Last edited by Saquist; April 4 2011 at 07:24 PM.
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