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Old March 29 2011, 08:24 AM   #492
Sci
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

There's a very big difference between committing mass murder against millions of people on their native land and committing small-scale attacks against "civilians" who were part of an invading and occupying foreign culture.
Why put "civilians" in quotes? Were they somehow not civilians in reality?
Given that the Cardassian Union was essentially a military dictatorship, I question how many Cardassians present on Occupied Bajor, save family members, were legitimately civilians and how many were essentially just an unofficial part of the occupying army.

Is it the case, then, that their very existance on Bajor made them compliant--thereby justifying Bajoran attacks directly targeting civilian lives? Isn't that generalizing on the basis of race?
Maybe. Maybe not. A very real argument can be made that absolutely no Cardassians had any right to be on Bajor, because Bajor had no legitimate government (only a puppet government obeying the Cardassians) to grant such a privilege, and that, therefore, any Cardassian present on Bajor was violating Bajor's sovereignty.

That's the essence, at the end of the day, of Kira's speech in "The Darkness and the Light." That's what she means when she says:

Kira Nerys wrote:
None of you should've been on Bajor! It wasn't your world! For fifty years you raped our planet and killed our people. You lived on our land and took the food from our mouths, so I don't care if you held a phaser in your hand or ironed shirts for a living. You were all guilty and you were all legitimate targets!
Certainly she seems to think that any Cardassians present on Bajor are legitimate targets. But even that is not the same thing as advocating the sort of genocide a nuclear attack would entail, especially since it's unclear just how many Cardassians were actually on Bajor.

Sci wrote: View Post
I somehow doubt that she would have advocated detonating nuclear weapons in the middle of downtown Lakarian City, though.
Kira might not have, I agree. However, there may have been some of her compadres in the resistance who were not so accommodating.
There's no evidence of that, however.

And years later, there's the Maquis, who definitely had some people like that as well (i.e. Eddington).
The Maquis were Federates. (Well, ex-Federates.) They had nothing to do with the Bajor/Cardassia conflict.

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Bajoran civilians, no. Cardassian civilians...yes.

Recall Kira's line in "Duet" that as far as the Resistance was concerned, "They were all guilty."
Yeah - and she was wrong. That was kinda the point of the episode.
Was it the point of the episode?

Of course, the thing to bear in mind about Kira is that even though she viewed all Cardassians present on Bajor during the Occupation as being violators of Bajoran sovereignty, she didn't necessarily think all Cardassians deserved to be killed. Witness her reaction at the end of "Duet," when a Cardassian not guilty of any war crimes is murdered by a Bajoran.

Her notion seems to be that any Cardassian on Bajor was violating Bajoran sovereignty, and that as such they were legitimate targets if there was an attack underway, but that notion does not seem to extend to the idea that just any Cardassian deserved death. Rather, her notion seems to be, "They shouldn't be here, tough shit if they die in the course of us achieving our objectives in our attack."

Sci wrote: View Post
There's a very big difference between committing mass murder against millions of people on their native land and committing small-scale attacks against "civilians" who were part of an invading and occupying foreign culture.
Only in location and scale.
Location and scale matter.
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