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Old March 23 2011, 01:17 AM   #452
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

This is the point when I ask you for real-world examples of how normal countries react to rogue state agencies responsible for terror within and without their borders.
And I would answer that that's something of a loaded question--31's actions could hardly be considered "terror". Remember, their actions are supposed to be in secret, in the netherworld of espionage.
OK. "This is the point when I ask you for real-world examples of how normal countries react to rogue state agencies responsible for murder within and without their borders."

When it came out in the mid-1990s that Spain's SOcialist government under Gonzalez created the illegal Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberación death squads to fight against ETA, for instance, that revelation cost the Socialists the election.
Well, I doubt 31 was created by a political party.

But anyhow--the Federation is not a real-world power. It has some parallels with, say, the US, but it has politics of its own.

I doubt there are real-world organizations that could legitimately be called "21st-century Section 31s".

BTW...some people have compared (I would say unfairly) to the CIA or MI6. I'd say it's more akin to the fictional IMF of Mission: Impossible ("If any of your team are caught or killed, the CIA will disavow any knowledge of your activities", etc.) or Area 51.

Genocide is a defensible military tactic?
As I said, extreme scenarios call for extreme measures.

Frankly, the idea of keeping war free of "war atrocities" is fallacious. War itself is an atrocity. Making it clean and neat takes away the incentive to end it as quickly as possible.

The best thing the Federation and its allies could do would be to win the war as quickly as possible. That preserves life in the long run.

As "The Man Trap" indicates, it's not immoral genocide if it's in self-defense.

Keep in mind that the Dominion was willing to use a sunkiller weapon to blow up the Bajoran sun as a preemptive tactic, not a reprisal for anything that had been done. If the Dominion found out that the Federation was responsible, shifting to the use of metaweapons as a revenge tactic wouldn't be a stretch at all.
So the Dominion was, in theory, perfectly fine with genocide.

Isn't triggering an apocalyptic war something that should be done--if at all--with the full knowledge of the legitimate authorities?
I think the Dominion War could reasonably be considered apocalyptic.

Section 31 is the equivalent, of a Cold War-era anti-Communist terrorist group running through the Soviet sphere of influence setting off tactical nukes.
And that's...bad?

This is not an argument in favour of the organization's survival.
On the contrary--I'd say it defends them quite well.
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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