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Old March 10 2011, 06:57 PM   #422
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
rfmcdpei wrote: View Post

Do we know this?
For the most part. Perhaps I'm being a little harsh on the Federation...buts its intense desire to avoid conflict has the distinct danger of leading inevitably to giving other powers the benefit of the doubt.
This hasn't worked badly for the Federation so far; it's non-zero-sumness is appealing.
Frankly, I would contend that the reason the UFP has survived in spite of all that directly involves people like James T. Kirk, who was willing to go against Federation policy in such episodes as "A Taste Of Armageddon".

Note carefully how in that ep, the ambassador engages in a policy of appeasement and giving the Eminiar leaders the benefit of the doubt--until he gets captured, and Kirk has to educate him in the ways of the real world.

By extention, Section 31 has compensated in a similar manner--just behind the scenes.

How do we know Ross doesn't know how to deal with Section 31, or that he doesn't know how it works? By all accounts he seems to get along reasonably well with them, to the point of actively choosing to work for them.
I am aware of that. I am also aware that, for reasons which I can understand but not sympathize with, Ross's assumptions towards 31 seem to border on overestimating their viciousness in matters of the presidency.

I understand his reasons for his fear--he was still recovering from being involved in a previous presidential assasination--but I would contend that his agony-filled conscience made him a little...paranoid.

Becoming involved in a Romulan civil war would be bad enough; becoming involved in a full-scale war with the Typhon Pact, even worse. Maybe if the Borg hadn't made their visitations the Federation would have supported the IRS ... Avoiding conflict with the Romulans when it wasn't clear that the IRS could survive indefinitely wasn't a bad decision.
Then why did Bacco invite the IRS into the Alliance?

Donatra's decision-making is something i can't explain. All I know is what you know, that after she learned from Sisko she wouldn't get military support from the Federation against the RSE she opted for a parlay with Tal'Aura and that she agreed to meet the Praetor on Romulus.
It's funny how she takes Sisko's word for it. She's the ruler of a foreign power--surely she and/or her ambassadors have a direct line to the Palais.

I've been saying that any attempt by Section 31 to reorganize is going to be partial at best, and will make what's effectively a new organization absent whatever connections and support it enjoyed before its unveiling.
Connections and support can be rebuilt as well. It may be different in nature, but it can be rebuilt.

But that broad? The general definition and Section 31's definition must differ.
As Kirk noted, the section is very vauge, referring to non-specific discretionary power over non-specific matters.

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Why would the Tal Shiar help out Section 31? How would Section 31 pick out some very particular facts--a handshake, in the case of Dor's infection by Alizome--and give them their actual importance and make the case convincing? Is it plausible to imagine Section 31 to have penetrate the upper echelons of Tzenkethi civilization?

As others have said, political instability is common in Ki Baratan at the best of times. Picking out particular patterns must always be tricky.
But not impossible.
But nothing to bet on.
Oh, I wouldn't play a game on it--but I doubt we'll know until we return to Julian Bashir, Sarina, and L'Haan, and find out then what 31 knows or doesn't know.
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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