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Old March 2 2011, 02:59 AM   #392
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

Sci wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Rogue made it very clear that the list of Tal Shiar agents Koval was giving to Section 31 was of older agents who were scheduled to be purged. It was, in other worse, a useless list for which Section 31 traded control of an area of space with an incredibly powerful and dangerous natural phenomenon.
Frankly, I can't help but wonder, if it were as bad as all that, and that Koval was only duping 31 all along...why they would continue to support him.
For the same reason any intelligence organization would continue to support a bad source: Pride. Refusal to admit mistakes.
So 31's not "worse" than other intelligence agencies, as far as efficiency is concerned....

After all, the only person who knew that Koval had screwed Section 31 over with a bad list was Corwin. And Corwin wasn't very well about to admit that he'd been had to his superiors in Section 31.
Except neglect in that regart would make him a liability--and as far as 31 is concerned, a threat to the Federation. You sure Corwin was the only one aware of this?

Oh, bullshit. If they were serious about helping the Klingons, they would have just had someone at United Earth Starfleet Command order the NX-01 to proceed to the Klingon border and have Phlox provide assistance.
And their reasons were...?

Which also has plenty of precedent in Romulan history. There is, again, no reason to think, from the POV of any non-Tzenkethi, that the Tzenkethi had a covert operation going on in Ki Baratan.
Well, time will tell if the UFP intel forces were up on this, then--i.e., if any agents were on Romulus, or Tzenkethi.

That's my point -- the leaders of the Typhon Pact may well get together and decide to deliberately cultivate a close relationship like what the U.S. and U.K. enjoy in order to remove from their governments the very desire to spy on one-another.
Except they haven't formed such a friendship yet.

Same reason the Tholians waited until tensions between the Federation government and Andorian government were at their high point before revealing what they knew about the UFP's classified data: Because sometimes it's a better idea to wait until the opportune moment to reveal a trump card.
I see. Good point on that...but it's often difficult to determine when the opportune moment is.

Nope. I think it's a problem that can only ever be managed, not solved. It's not like the UFP can credibly claim that it's goal is not to unite the galaxy under the Federation banner; all they can reasonably do is try to not to be assholes until they can convince those critics to come around and join the party.

Well, that's the good news: There aren't that many of them.

The Romulan border is already heavily militarized and has been for two centuries. I don't think that new measures need to be taken there.

There are large regions of unclaimed space between the Tholian Assembly, Breen Confederacy, Tzenkethi Coalition, and Federation. The only Member States I can find near a border with a Pact state are Pacifica and Cestus (though that's from looking up scans from Star Trek: Star Charts, since I can't find my copy right now). The rest seem to be minor, possibly uninhabited star systems, and starbases.
The Cardassians are pretty close to the Tholians and the Breen, however. Bajor also comes to mind. to the Union, on defense and so on, could be construed as "imperialism" and "aggresive postures", could it not?

I think that's getting into more detail than is reasonable for an Internet bulletin board discussion.
Perhaps. And that actually leads me to my point: It's very relative. Which is why the Pact has a considerable ammount of leeway in determining what they can deem to be "aggresive"--thereby justifying buil-ups of their own.

Well, no, their express intent was to destroy the Federation. That included Humanity, obviously, but it also included Vulcanity and Andorianity and Tellaritity and Risianity and Coridanitity and Gnalishity and Sulamidity and Antedeanity and Alonisity and Benzitity and Bolianity and Damianity and Denobulanity and Efrosianity and Grazeritity and Hermatity and Huannity and Hortanity and Ktarianity and Nasatity and Ramatianity and Rigelianity and Saurianity and Trillity and Zaldanity and Zakdornity...
Which actually helps my point, as well: The Borg were selective in their quest, as far as the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers are concerned.

(Yes, I only brought that up so I could add "-ity" to all those Federation species. Yes, I'm a smart-ass. )
You? Impossible.

More seriously, the Borg were actively trying to exterminate, at the very least, the entire Federation, Klingon Empire, and Romulan Star Empire. That's why Lost Souls established that there was a 100-light-year dead zone around the Azure Nebula. So while it's fair to say that the Gorn, Tzenkethi, Breen, Tholians, and Kinshaya space escaped the brunt of the Borg Invasion, Romulan space did not, and NONE of their militaries escaped serious losses.
The RSE is merely one power. The fact that the vast majority of the Pact escaped the bunt of the attact nonetheless gives them something of an advantage.

One of the things I liked about the fact that Section 31 assassinated Min Zife was that it was completely understandable why they would do it. No, it wasn't the right thing to assassinate a Federation President -- but, by the same token, he had just gotten thousands of Federates Klingons and millions of Tezwans killed to cover up his criminal activities. It's clearly wrong, but it's also clearly motivated by a sense of right and wrong, and it wasn't an operation that directly benefited either Federation security or themselves.
(whistle) Well! I seem to recall you not being so understanding when we discussed that issue--in fact, you used it as an example of why the Bureau should be abolished....
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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