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Old February 28 2011, 02:22 AM   #358
Rush Limborg
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Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Frankly, I can't help but wonder, if it were as bad as all that, and that Koval was only duping 31 all along...why they would continue to support him.
The answer has been supplied: Section 31 isn't nearly as uber-competent as it pretends to be.

None of the terrifying secret services shown on Star Trek are all that good. The Tal Shi'ar and the Obsidian Order famously got p3wned by the Dominion into launching a catastrophically failed attack against the Dominion homeworld, while neither organization has been able to suppress strong dissident movements or secure itself completely against internal opposition. Why should Section 31 be so much better? How could Section 31 be so much better?
Frankly, considering all that, the question should be: Why should, and how could, Section 31 be so much worse?

But anyhow...the thing we have to understand about super-secret orginizations is: they're like Hollywood special effects teams. Their best work is demonstrated...when you see no evidence of it.

So...of course when our heroes encounters evidence of the Order, or the Shiar, or 31, it's because something went wrong. If those organizations are successful in their one "out in the open" will know about it.

Therefore, it's only natural that most Section 31 tales involving our heroes involve something going wrong in the Bureau's plans. Despite all of cannot take that to "assume" that 31, the Shiar, and the Order are generally incompetent. If they succeed in their plans, we'd probably know nothing about it.

The Romulans and the Tzenkethi were far less relevent to the Borg's agenda.
Humans did anger the Borg, yes, and Federation worlds seem to have been targeted for early eradication, but the Borg also attacked the Romulan and Klingon empires. We know that the Klingon Empire suffered very heavy damage, with trading worlds like H'Atoria and the populous Mempa system being destroyed and Qo'Nos itself being attacked. We know much less about what happened in Romulan space--I've made the case that Romulans' inclination towards metaweapons use may have limited damage--but we do know that there were Borg attacks on Romulan worlds. The Romulans had also been attacked by the Borg way back in the Neutral Zone in 2364, and Romulan vessels from both states were involved in the fighting.

Of the classical three galactic superpowers, I think the evidence is pretty clear that the Romulans escaped the Borg invasion with the least damage. "Least" is not synonymous with "no."
Of course it isn't. However...the comparison still remains that the Klingons and the UFP are in a somewhat weaker position due to that.

As I said, those examples were only to illustrate the strength of radicalism vs. the strength of moderation. I did not imply that the Pact is experiencing rebellion--simply that radical factions competing for control with moderate factions run a serious risk, provided the moderates fail to organize themselves in a manner to defeat the radicals.
That makes your radicalism/moderation paradigm a bit more comprehensible, but your original suggestion that the Typhon Pact's formation is inherently prone to radicalism still doesn't hold.
No, not "inherent", not particularly. But again, it is often best to anticipate and prepare for the Worst Case Scenario. If Murphy's Law indicates, the WCS has, indeed, a greater chance of occuring.
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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