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Old February 21 2011, 04:32 PM   #11
DevilEyes
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Re: Once More, With Feeling: my big Buffy/Angel canon rewatch/reread/r

Pemmer Harge wrote: View Post
I think these episodes are a pretty good start to the series. Yeah, some of it's a little cheesy and Jesse's death is swept under the carpet, but I've seen them multiple times and they're still fun to watch.

One thing that irks me slightly: at this point Giles is pretty much a stereotype - the sort of English character who shows up on American TV all the time.
I think they're a good start, and it doesn't mean that I don't like them if I'm giving an episode a below-the-average rating like 2.5. I'm using the standard set by the entire show, and while I really liked season 1 - it certainly was good enough to get me to watch the show - I didn't really love it until halfway through season 2. Things like cheesy moments, Giles being a stereotype etc. hold it back from being on the level of the rest of the show, but as a beginning, it's really good.

My ratings are something like this:
1 - awful episode
1.5 - really bad episode, but has some good moments and redeeming parts
2 - bad episode
2.5 - not exactly bad but below the average
3 - standardly good episode
3.5 - very good episode
4 - excellent episode
4.5 - great episode, but some things hold it back from being perfect
5 - one of the best episodes of the show, my top 20 or top 25

I'm not sure if I hate any of the episodes of BtVS that much to give it a 1, but there is one AtS episode I absolutely despise, so it will either get 1, or even 0.5 if I happen to already give some other episodes a 1. But there are also lots of canon comics I haven't read yet, and I've heard some bad things about some of the Angel and Spike canon comics (and didn't like some things I did read from some of them), so if I happen to hate a comic that much I might actually give some 0 ratings. The comics are already at a disadvantage even when they have great writing, because of the lack of live actors - even the worst Buffy/Angel episodes at least have good actors in it, but the comics don't have that, especially when the art is not great (and I still haven't seen any of the art for Buffy or Angel comics that I was completely satisfied with).


label wrote: View Post
General season 1 thought. I know vampires became punching bags and even punchlines in later seasons, but at least in Season 1, there was a real attempt to get the horror aspect of the show in there and I think Season 1 and to a lesser degree season 2 was generally scarier than the later season's portrayal of vamps. Sure, there's the occasional scary episode here in there like hush, but most gravitated more towards the action/humour than the horror feel Season 1 had.
I don't think that the show gravitated more towards action and humour later on, season 1 had lots of humour (and some action too, though the action scenes were not as good back then) and if anything the show gravitated more towards drama later on. Season 1 had some more typical horror elements, mainly the Master, very Nosferatu-like, and the rest of the S1 vampires are more conventional horror villains. But I thought that the show wasn't nearly as dark in season 1 as later on, maybe because things got more complicated and the good and bad guys weren't that easy to distinguish as before (which is underscored in "Lie to Me"), and the stories got more serious and pulled a stronger emotional punch because they cut closer to home. The Master as the Big Bad worked perfectly for season 1, but the show was always moving on and changing and it went on to do some new and different things with its villains. I loved it when they started introducing unconventional villains that were much easier to relate to and that had quite a few similarities to the heroes (Joss said that this was the reason for the introduction of Spike and Dru), not to mention heroes turning into villains. But after they had successfully used vampires as main villains in two completely different ways in seasons 1 and 2, using them again as a Big Bad would get too repetitive, so they had to come up with different Big Bads - one season is was someone in position of political power, and a Slayer, another season it was a god or the ultimate evil, and another one all main villains were human and it was really about life itself and the flaws and issues of the characters. Random vampires were rarely as scary after season 2, but I think the vampire characters, as they became more 'human', became more of a vehicle for exploring the dark side and psychological complexities and moral ambiguities, on AtS and in later seasons of BtVS.

I think that there were lots of straightforward horror elements and episodes in the show after season 2 - "Helpless", "Hush", to an extent "Fear, Itself", Glory sucking people's brains, the ending of "Forever", many of the First scenes in season 7, the Dawn storyline in "Conversations with Dead People", "Dirty Girls"...

saturn5 wrote: View Post
Are you going to read the 60 or so original comics that were published during the course of the show? They cover the time between the movie and the series, the one with Dawn and Hoopy bear is especially good and we see what happened to Pike and much more of Joyce and Hank
No, I'm focusing on the canon, everything that may be relevant to the story, and they're not canon. I might read some of them if I find time, if they're really good. Which ones do you recommend? It would be nice to fill some of the blanks if they don't contradict the canon. For instance I like Peter David's explanation of the Cecily/Halfrek story, which fits well with the info we got in the show.

As for Riff Regan in the Buffy pilot it was a shame but she came across as a realisitic nerd. Unfortunately for her but fortunately for the series she was replaced by a girl once voted 11th sexiest in the world by FHM (much like Glee, the Scoobs are an amazingly attractive bunch of 'outcasts')
I think it's very fortunate that she was replaced but not because Alyson Hannigan is thinner and prettier but because she was so much better in the role. Rif Regan wasn't that good compared to AH, her performance was just bland and didn't get me emotionally involved in any way.

As for the looks, I agree that it would be more realistic to have some less good-looking people in the main cast. But from my high school experience, it's not like being pretty means you can't be an outcast, if you're considered either nerdy or weird, crazy, unapproachable etc. Actually when I look at my best friends, we were all 'pretty outcasts' in high school. Though I don't think I could say that there were such things as "popular people" in my school, since those who considered themselves a popular crowd were hated and despised by many others. Basically you had several different crowds in my class (the Cordelia-type kids; the 'normal' girls; the 'normal' boys) and then some people who didn't quite fit anywhere. So I don't know if it's possible to be 'popular' in high school, there are some kids who are richer or more confident and who hang together and act like they think they're the coolest, but when a lot of other kids hate them, how are they "popular"?

As for CC and her Com-shuk-me vibe, I'm just not sure?
What do you mean?
One thing, can you see how much the Hemery High characters in the movie resemble those in the series?
Well, I saw the movie long, lone time ago so I don't remember that many details, except that the overall vibe was very different and a lot more comedic and lightweight than the show or the "Origin" comic, and that while I didn't hate the movie I didn't like it in particular and didn't expect anything from the show. I only remember Kristy Swanson's Buffy, Luke Perry, Rutger Hauer and I only barely remember Donald Sutherland's Merrick, and that's all. I don't remember Merrick being as tough, stern and determined as he is in the comic (but neither was he in the "Becoming" flashback). Could you remind me and compare the characters?

(and still might if after the end of Chosen Buffy wakes up sane again in the asylum, meaning they're all still alive?)
Well, season 8 is canon and we know that she hasn't woken up. But the theory doesn't hold water IMO, it just can't explain all the things that we saw happen that Buffy didn't see and didn't know about (almost all of AtS, for starters; on BtVS, most scenes with the series villains when they aren't interacting with her, any other scenes that don't involve Buffy). It's just impossible to see it all as being in Buffy's head, that could only work if she was in every scene.
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my Buffy/Angel rewatch
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