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Old December 6 2010, 06:27 PM   #56
Anwar
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Re: Anyone else think they should have left the Borg well enough alone

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
See, this is what I'm trying to explain to you about writing yourself into a corner. If you're introducing a plot device that you only intend to work once, then along with the introduction must be a mechanism to terminate that device once it has served its purpose. That mechanism may be explicit (a line of dialog that explains that it will only work once) or implicit (we are told afterwards it's just a one-time thing).
I wasn't clear enough. The hypothetical teleport machine, being an ancient alien device, would only have enough energy left to work a few more times before being totally drained. They try at first to use it to escape, and when that fails they use the last charge to teleport the Borg ship into a black hole/the sun where it's instantly destroyed. The Teleporter than goes offline until they can find out how to recharge it.

Depending on whether or not they can think of a way of using it again like that in a way that isn't lame they can just say they never found out how to repower the thing.


And we would have obtained this device from where, exactly?
This is Star Trek, they build crazy sh*t all the time. YEars of co-existence with telepaths would make building an amplifier not too difficult.

Why does she know how to do that?

Why?

How exactly do you imprint an ENERGY SIGNATURE on a telepathic signal? For that matter, what the hell is an "energy signature?"
She and all the other telepaths on board just join together in a psychic "call" with images of the 8472 or they scan her brain to see how it reacted when the 8472 "talked" to her and see how it happened and know how to configure the amplifier so the 8472 would hear it. Then they just launch the amplifier into the Borg-infested space for the 8472 to home in on (if the Borg themselves don't make it easier by picking up the amplifier).

It's like in the video game "Starcraft". The protagonists found out the Zerg aliens were attracted by human psychic emanations and the bad guys had built a device to "call out" to them using these emanations. They stole the plans, built some emitters, planted them on space platforms above the Bad Guy Homeworld and the Zerg came in billions to wipe out the planet.

What are you talking about? Voyager both shrugs off a direct hit AND outruns them at their very first encounter. When every ship in the universe moves at the speed of plot, just move the hero ship a teeny bit faster.
And that didn't make sense, if these things could trash Borg Cubes in one shot and even overtake Borg Cubes than VOY shouldn't last a nanosecond. Better to use trickery and their own psychic sensitivity against them to lure them to the Borg rather than risk themselves.

The WRITERS can say that, sure. How the hell would anyone on VOYAGER plausibly know the outcome of a battle hundreds of light years behind them? For that matter, how is decisively closing the book on the matter--even if you have no intention of revisiting it--more dramatically pleasing than leaving it open-ended for the viewers to fill in the gaps with their own imaginations?
I mean, have the writers give a podcast/interview where they admit that they wanted to close the book on the Borg and 8472, have no intention of revisiting the story, and say they all died after the episode ended.

Besides, HIDING from the Borg has never been all that difficult, so trying to sneak through their space by simply avoiding them also remains a possibility.
This is the double standard at work again. It was okay for the ENT-D to hide in a nebula (which didn't work since the Borg blew them out anyways) or a Sun's Corona (which also didn't work since the Borg knew where they were and were just waiting for them to fry) but VOY did the same thing the audience would just say it's a lame cop-out that they don't find some way of destroying all the Borg in their path since the ENT-D found a way of destroying the Borg in BOBW and Descent.

Perhaps because Farscape and SG-1 sucked?
Not ALL the time...

He doesn't just crack open the universal translator, pull a crystal out of it and then slice the Gorn in half with a laser beam that suddenly leaps out of it (ahem!).
Finding an ancient device on some planet is a Trek staple, and studying the 8472 and finding out they can be lured out of Fluidic Space and into certain areas through signals doesn't seem too outlandish to me.

So what? You can install a nuclear reactor and a laser cannon on a fishing boat, doesn't mean you can see where the hell you're going.
But on Fed ships (and damn every ship) in Trek the sensors are always on par with the engine capacity and weapon capacity. It would make the Borg seem kind of retarded that such a powerful species would let themselves go around borderline myopic.

Since you've already suggested that this anomalous behavior can be ascribed to only a single cube (they might not all think alike after all) then the general rule may still apply. It certainly did in "I, Borg."
Agreed, but that's not what the writers did.

Unless you simply write them that way, that a single lost Federation starship isn't THAT interesting to the Borg and they'll stop chasing you if you can stay off their radar for a couple of days.
If guys I was at war with just randomly appeared in my backyard when they're supposed to be tens of thousands of miles away I'd want them for questioning for how they managed such an incredible travel leap when they shouldn't have that power. The Borg would assume that the Feds now had some kind of superior jump drive they'd want for themselves.

Sure, they could break onboard, scan the databanks and find out it was just a random alien who brought them there and then just leave them, totally losing interest, but that would be a massive cop-out.

You forget that "sleep, Data" was a last minute longshot that only Data thought would work, a confluence of plot elements that had been building to a climax and only came together at the last minute (where Riker's plan was to just RAM the fucking thing at maximum warp).
If they did a bunch of stories where they saw the 8472 wiping the floor with other aliens, destroying some planets, and then getting some samples to study BEFORE they ran into the Borg and realized they could use them to get the Borg out of the way, would THAT be a proper "climax"? I can understand why they did it as fast as they did (it was a rushed episode and the 8472 cost too much to use).

You start to approach a story premise that has an enormous amount of potential, utterly fail to deliver, then abort the attempt in the middle of the episode so you "Won't have to worry about it" anymore? Really?!

I mean, if that's the kind of mindset of the show's creative staff it's no wonder it was such a piece of shit. "Gee, the fans keep demanding we do a huge Borg episode. How about we do a two parter where some more powerful race comes along and annihilates them so we can go back to cookie-cutter forehead-alien stories?"
All the writers did was remember what everyone else forgot: Q said the Borg were just ONE dangerous species out there. They decided that, "Hey, if they're just ONE danger why not just show that there's another danger at least as dangerous as them and then have them cancel each other out?" It's sensible, it won't devour the budget (too much) and it won't take over the show. BOBW wiped out the Borg invasion in a two-parter, so VOY did a two-parter that got them past the Borg in a believable manner as well.

It's better than having the crew be cowards who run from everything, or have them technobabble a weapon to destroy the Borg armada with. Just fly by while two giants smack each other out. They never promised us some big "Voyager vs the Borg" story since they knew it wouldn't go over well with an increasingly unpleasable audience.
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