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Old December 6 2010, 05:22 AM   #47
Anwar
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Re: Anyone else think they should have left the Borg well enough alone

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post

Voyager in general is hard to write for. Partly because almost any way you could write the story and have it not suck would require it to sharply diverge from everything that is recognizably Voyager. It's a curious sort of series: The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of Deep Space Nine?
Rats, you're one of those guys who hated VOY for existing?

In all seriousness, I think that story would be easier to pull off using the Defiant or even the Enterprise-E. Writing it for Voyager is doable, IF you're doing it as a sort of Voyager Re-imagined concept; for example, the teleportation device transports Voyager halfway across the galaxy, but the Borg simply follow them with a transwarp conduit, so they attach the device to the Borg cube and teleport them into low orbit of a neutron star where the ship is pulled in and crushed.
Well, the Transwarp network was a stupid idea frankly. Just making the Transwarp Conduit seen in "Descent" be a natural phenoma (a natural group of conduits that the Borg use to go from the DQ to various parts of the Galaxy) would've been better and makes the Borg less overpowered if a way could be found to destroy the Conduits and strand them in the DQ.

But I think the Teleporter Device could work, in that it only can send them a hundred LY away at maximum and the teleport effect could be projected onto another object by linking the device to the weapons array or something. It would be VOY's answer to Farscape and NuBSG's contrivance teleport devices (Starburst and the BSG FTL engine) that they use to get teleport themselves away from their enemies. And it can be continually used as a temporary escape device or a weapon (if it's too much of a game-breaker then say it can be canceled out by some species' shields and the Borg were just coincidentally vulnerable to it).

You could, but that convincing--or even manipulation--would need to be sort of a plot point in its own right, not just a lame twist contrived just for the hell of it. Sort of like the use of Reavers against the Alliance--and vice versa--at the end of "Serenity."
I thought the way it was done in Serenity WAS a lame twist. It came out of nowhere aside from the Reavers being at the start of the film.

For example, if VOY found out that the 8472 were attracted to a psychic call of a certain magnitude and they built a device that the psychics onboard could "call out" to the 8472 with, and then they attached a Borg energy signature to that call, the 8472 could suddenly swarm in thousands upon the Central Core of the Collective overrunning and destroying it entirely (with the Borg destroying the 8472 attack force in the process) then I don't see the problem.

Or them just convincing the Voth (once they find out they're related) that the Borg will destroy their ancestral home so the Voth decide "What the Hell" and just annihilate a pathway through Borg space for VOY to go through.

Hell, even Babylon 5 did it that way. They had the Shadows and Vorlons assemble these massive armadas, but then they just TALKED their way out of fighting and both of them just left the Galaxy. The long-awaited confrontation was a total cop-out. No one complained THERE either.

It's really just double standard. I mean if TNG or DS9 did the same thing and have the other super-powerful DQ races step in to wipe out the Borg and say "Sorry, we let the infestation spread. Our bad" no one would complain.

AFAIK, the response was that the Borg THEMSELVES were enough of a threat that having to deal with them as an opponent had possibilities in itself. Introducing Species 8472 cheated the viewers out of the long-anticipated Borg confrontation, then conveniently resolved it by the liberal application of [tech], then bypassed it altogether the following episode by having Kes fling them safely out of Borg space.
There was no way for VOY by itself to survive the Borg in a way the audience would've enjoyed. So they just as easily made up the 8472 as the Borg themselves were made up to get out of it. One overpowered species to get rid of the problem of another overpowered species. Sounds fair and simple to me.

It's not just "They made the Borg not-invincible!" It's more "They [the writers] created a race more powerful than the Borg just to create danger, then eliminated the other race, then eliminated the Borg, then went on their merry way." That's like checking into the Bates motel, watching Norman Bates getting murdered by Jason, then watching Jason getting killed by Peter Pan, and then it's over. It's more than a letdown, you come away feeling like your eyeballs have been raped.
We've been arguing here that it really isn't possible for the overpowered Borg that TNG made to be used that often. What VOY did, IMO, was quick, easy, creative. It was certainly just as good as how Crichton was randomly given the knowledge to create a contrivance weapon to scare the Peacekeepers and Scarrans into a peace treaty, or how Stargate SG-1 found contrivance weapons on Earth to destroy the Goa'uld. Or even "sleep".

But you might have your assumptions reversed. People didn't hate the storylines "because Voyager did it means the story sucked." They hated they storylines because THE STORIES sucked and this reflected poorly on Voyager--that is to say, the WRITERS--in general.
I dunno, it just really seems that folks were ready to rip the show to shreds from inception and went in biased already. It didn't have much of a chance.

But there's got to be a middle ground between "Totally unstoppable" and "Stopped dead in their tracks by pulling some random technobabble out of my ass and having it work every time."
Not with the overpowered Borg, it seems. It's just have them be unstoppable or have the heroes find something to blast them away with. Guinan said that eventually there could be co-existence with the Borg but everyone forgot that, and Q said they were just one threat and not even a major one, but everyone forgot THAT too.

And it's not like you can really run from the Borg successfully. Their sensors and propulsion are too superior for them to not be able to track your warp signature no matter where you go or where you hide ("I, Borg"'s ending made no sense that they could hide in that nebula). Destroying them is the only answer.

Don't forget, "Sleep" in BOBW was just technobabble as well. Data teched his way into Picard and teched the Collective into shutting itself down.

That makes sense in theory, but I have serious misgivings about anything that makes Star Trek in any way more similar to Stargate SG-1.
I know, I don't like the "Pro-Military, Anti-Civilian" Right-wing tone myself. Didn't like it in NuBSG either. Or TOS.

Last edited by Anwar; December 6 2010 at 06:01 AM.
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