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Old December 6 2010, 04:52 AM   #46
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Anyone else think they should have left the Borg well enough alone

Anwar wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
I can gaurantee you I could write a story based on that precise outline that would make a perfectly respectable episode.
Well, you're the first. I tried to use that idea as the basis for a "Voyager vs the Borg" story that could show how one ship could face off with the Borg and survive. Of course, the response was that since it was Voyager it would suck no matter how well done it was because they just wanted to hate it.
Voyager in general is hard to write for. Partly because almost any way you could write the story and have it not suck would require it to sharply diverge from everything that is recognizably Voyager. It's a curious sort of series: The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of Deep Space Nine?

In all seriousness, I think that story would be easier to pull off using the Defiant or even the Enterprise-E. Writing it for Voyager is doable, IF you're doing it as a sort of Voyager Re-imagined concept; for example, the teleportation device transports Voyager halfway across the galaxy, but the Borg simply follow them with a transwarp conduit, so they attach the device to the Borg cube and teleport them into low orbit of a neutron star where the ship is pulled in and crushed.

Considering how much the Voth sucked as a villain species, I would have too.
The point is, I brought up the issues of "Hey, there are species out there who would wipe the floor with the Borg so why not just convince them to do so?"
You could, but that convincing--or even manipulation--would need to be sort of a plot point in its own right, not just a lame twist contrived just for the hell of it. Sort of like the use of Reavers against the Alliance--and vice versa--at the end of "Serenity."

The VOY staff did that with the 8472 storyline. Response being "They invented a species that can defeat the Borg in straight up combat, without the use of a plot contrivance! They've RUINED the Borg by showing they aren't invincible!"
AFAIK, the response was that the Borg THEMSELVES were enough of a threat that having to deal with them as an opponent had possibilities in itself. Introducing Species 8472 cheated the viewers out of the long-anticipated Borg confrontation, then conveniently resolved it by the liberal application of [tech], then bypassed it altogether the following episode by having Kes fling them safely out of Borg space.

It's not just "They made the Borg not-invincible!" It's more "They [the writers] created a race more powerful than the Borg just to create danger, then eliminated the other race, then eliminated the Borg, then went on their merry way." That's like checking into the Bates motel, watching Norman Bates getting murdered by Jason, then watching Jason getting killed by Peter Pan, and then it's over. It's more than a letdown, you come away feeling like your eyeballs have been raped.

Again, I could think of a thousand ways to write a story that would eliminate that problem. Not as much promise as #1 though. What else you got?
That last one is what Stargate SG-1 did to destroy a Goa'Uld armada attacking Earth. I was just saying that there's a double standard that what was used an epic season finale story to wipe out a long-running enemy. If one show did it, it's a success but if VOY did it, then it sucks and "ruins" the Borg.
Frankly, I thought it sucked in SG-1 too.

But you might have your assumptions reversed. People didn't hate the storylines "because Voyager did it means the story sucked." They hated they storylines because THE STORIES sucked and this reflected poorly on Voyager--that is to say, the WRITERS--in general.

The audience couldn't handle the idea of ANYTHING that VOY could do to survive a Borg attack intact. I thought up those three scenarios just off the top of my head, and it's still all rejected as "ruining" the Borg. Totally unpleasable.
But there's got to be a middle ground between "Totally unstoppable" and "Stopped dead in their tracks by pulling some random technobabble out of my ass and having it work every time." Otherwise you're offering the audience the same warmed-over pile of shit fifty times and then on the fifty first time saying "It appears there is no pleasing you!"

I'd just have made the Borg like the Goa'uld from the start
That makes sense in theory, but I have serious misgivings about anything that makes Star Trek in any way more similar to Stargate SG-1.
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