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Old September 1 2010, 04:16 PM   #39
Fleet Captain
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Re: Was What Happened to Lore legal? Opinions, please!

DonIago wrote: View Post
If you apply the same principles to Lore that were applied to Data, it's possible he would be considered property and then would be in their jurisdiction.
But then if Data wasn't the property of Starfleet, then neither was Lore.

I don't think there's any legal grounds establishing Data as Lore's next of kin in any case. Not to say an argument couldn't be made, but we're talking legalities.
Considering the topic is about Lore's rights and what was legal and illegal (as noted in the topic header) of course we're talking legalities.... they're relevant to the debate.

Soong may not have intended for Lore to be active, but I'm not sure that anyone has the right to summarily deactivate him either, provided they don't intend to give him a fair hearing at some point.
And how do you propose they give him a fair hearing without risking the lives of everyone around him and having the very probable chance of him escaping?

I'm forced to wonder whether people would apply the same arguments if Lore hadn't exhibited anti-social behavior.

I think he was a bit more extreme then that..... if he didn't wipe out an entire colony, if he didn't attempt to kill the entire Enterprise crew, if he didn't murder his father, if he didn't attempt to manipulate and control the Borg, if he didn't conduct brutal experiments on them, if he didn't violate Data's freedom and his mind by controlling him with the emotion chip, if he didn't abduct Picard and the Enterprise crew, if he didn't conduct more brutal experiments on his crew ala Geordi...... I doubt anybody would see justification for deactivating him in the first place and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

SonsofSoong2338 wrote: View Post
Picard argued in "measure of a man" that there were "other races with super strength..." when Riker tried to use that as a way of showing Data was not a person. So, the idea that it was okay to put him down because he couldn't be imprisoned is not sound. They may have come to the conclusion that the only viable punishment was to disassemble him, but they never even bothered to do that. I'm not saying that Lore is the victim--far from it--but how many other instances in startrek have we seen of a persons rights being held above all else? They love that stuff...accept apparently in this case.
I sum it up as Data, with his millions of calculations a second brain, already thought of all the alternatives, probably concluded there was no logical way of restraining him properly, no logical way of punishing him, processed all the laws, all the means of dealing with him through normal practices, and his final conclusion was the only one.

And as another mentioned, while Data and other Androids have earned certain rights within the Federation, They are not Human and they are not from Earth, thus Human/Earth laws do not exactly apply..... he was the first of his culture, and therefore the only logical choice for determining what is done within his own society/culture towards those who commit serious crimes such as what Lore did.

Besides, while the Federation has dealt with other alien species that possess considerable strength, this situation is similar to how one tries to arrest, restrain and punish a Q.

In other words, it's not easily done..... until one figures out how.... deactivate him.


Let's also not forget that Lore not only escaped drifting in space, he also had his own personal teleportation device in his body, and who knows what other modifications he made to his body..... trying to hold him for any extended period of time against his will would have been futile, short of deactivating him.

Last edited by Praxius; September 1 2010 at 04:28 PM.
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