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Old August 13 2010, 12:43 AM   #39
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Re: Worldbuilding: New member integration in the UFP

Why would anyone what to join the Federation in the first place, as opposed to just having a series of treaties and agreements?

Why would the Federation even want (or is it need) new members? They already have many dozens.

neozeks wrote: View Post
Penta wrote: View Post
Has it ever clearly been laid out what the conditions for UFP membership to be granted are, canonically? I'm coming out of a migrane, and don't fully recall.
Not really. We do know caste based discrimination is a no-no (yes, someone will bring up Ardana, but it can be argued that was a special case).
The argument could also be made that Adana wasn't the special case, Bajor was. The Federation might only have a problem with religious based caste systems, not caste systems in general. If hypothetically 140 Federation members had some sort of caste systems and 10 did not, that would make Earth and the few others the odd ones out, not Adana.

With their rigid societal structure it would not be hard to imagine the Vulcans to currently have a caste system. Perhaps the main reason Sarek was so piss off at Spock was that he refused to go into "the family business."

Also, a unified world government is very much prefered, but I think it's not an absolute requirement.
Likely only a preference, the Federation government would need to have a body that they interfaced with during the procedure of admitting the new Member, after that the body could be dissolved and the Federation government would then interface solely through the Member's chosen representative. Once the Member is sending a representative it doesn't make any difference if the Member has one government or a thousand.

Aside from that, if you believe the Federation is a liberal social democracy, as I do,
It might be helpful in this discussion to indicate who exactly we're talking about, there's

The Federation government.
The Federation as a whole (the populace culture-society excepting the government)
The Members as a part of the Federation government
The Members as internal governments

Strictly speaking, I actual don't believe the Federation government is a liberal social democracy, I think it's a simple democracy. I believe the Federation government lacks the ability and authority to even be "liberal social." I do believe many of the individual Member governments however are liberal social democracies, but certainly not every one of them.

Member don't have to conform.

And that's one of the many reasons why you as a non-Federation member would want to become a Federation Member.

if you believe ... as I do
Most of the government functions within the Federation are handled below the Federation government level, the Federation government is solely a government in interstellar matters, it exercises no "internal sovereignty" upon it's Members. So when a single planet, a small multi-star republic or an association of star systems (multiple species) joins the Federation as a new Member or new Members, they lose nothing, only gain. Their, again, internal sovereignty is intact, their governmental system remains the same after they join the Federation as it was before. The Federation government only has authority over their interactions with other Federation members and the galaxy as a whole.

Why would the prospective new Member agree to give up a portion of it's sovereignty? They don't.

And that's one of the many reasons why you as a non-Federation member would want to become a Federation Member.

I suppose it would be respect for basic rights, social justice, general stability of the society etc.
The Federation government could neither require nor impose these upon the Members. If your society was bad enough to start with, then the Federation government wouldn't consider you as a Member in the first place. Or separately if your culture changed enough through time, the other Members could implore you to change or basically "vote you out." But once a Member, the Federation government would lack the legal power to reach down into your social and government systems and make even the smallest of changes.

An example, Let's say the Federation government declared a certain cargo to be contraband. You couldn't ship that "whatever" around the Federation as a whole, However you could ship it inside your own star system and solely inbetween your collection of interstellar colonies. Again, you're internally sovereign.

If however another Member were to injure you (legal sense), then through the Federation you could receive satisfaction.

And that's a couple of the many reasons why you as a non-Federation member would want to become a Federation Member.
The exact requirements are probably very detailed and technical and the process probably lasts a long time in the best of cases,
I would imagine that the evaluation process is very extensive, and likely a bit intrusive. The Federation government's many investigation teams would be everywhere, realistically for years. Examining not just the government, but the society in general, the cultural institutions.

It would be analogous to buying a used car that you would be forbidden to repair. The most you could do is junk it.

And the investigation would of course be two way, I would think the potential new Member would want to look deeply into the Federation government too, to "look at the books."

To use the EU as an example, Iceland is
Imagine if Iceland wanted to join the United States instead of the EU and one day they show up at the CIA and insist on looking unrestricted through the files.

We can't always assume that a potential new Member is one who only recently achieved warp flight, the species may have possessed warp flight for hundreds or even thousands of years before meeting the Federation, and the Federation has only be interacting with them for a few decades.

, from the Latin: foedus, foederis or 'covenant.' The English word covenant means "a coming together." Covenants can include treaties, alliances, agreements, compacts, pledges, mutual agreements, promises, and undertakings on behalf of another.

; A body formed by a number of nations, states, societies, businesses, unions, communities, etc., each retaining control of its own internal affairs.

Last edited by T'Girl; August 13 2010 at 01:06 AM.
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