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Old August 11 2010, 06:42 PM   #36
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Re: Worldbuilding: New member integration in the UFP

neozeks wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Surely whatever else the Federation can do, it can do the simple work of ensuring that no one on the planet is going hungry anymore.
I don't think anyone is insinuating that the Federation wouldn't try it's best to do that. Just that even with all it's awesome technology, resources will always be limited and eradicating something like poverty will take a lot of time. Just like the Federation couldn't help Bajor recover overnight.
The Federation could offer knowledge in areas like agriculture and managing resources. However it would hardly be the Federation government's place to ensure anything on the surface of that world.

Cicero wrote: View Post
That I can recall, we've never seen the Federation withhold information from a culture that it considered equal to its own. It seems to me that withholding knowledge from an equal, or acceding to the censoring desires of its powerful structures is
Of course we've seen the Federation with hold knowledge from equals.

One of the thing that came out of the series Enterprise was that at the time Vulcan Starship-cruisers moved quite comfortably at warp factor seven, that was the Vulcan Starship-cruiser's cruising speed. Well over a hundred years later, during TOS, the Starship Enterprise moves quite comfortably at warp factor six, that is it's cruising speed. Not only aren't the Vulcan's sharing current knowledge and technology, they're not even sharing their old knowledge and technology with the rest of the Federation's members.

Captain Janeway made quite the point of not sharing replicator technology with warp-capable cultures. So censorship is very consistent with the Federation government's displayed philosophies and behavior. Also with the philosophies and behavior of individual Members (like the Vulcans).

Penta wrote: View Post
Even they aren't as assiduous about it as the Feds though, because of internal issues (in the Klingon case) and their own xenophobia/isolationism (in the Romulan case).
While it is possible to have a benevolent government that is referred to as an "empire," my impression is that the term benevolent applies to neither the Klingons nor the Romulans. Non-canon conventional thinking is that, after the Romulans colonized Romulus, they set about colonizing, conquering and subjugating the surrounding star systems. The Klingon pretty much the same, also the Klingons basically have a ongoing slave culture, even aboard their ships.

Sci wrote: View Post
... for the Federation to make a planet a protectorate without its full, open consent in the form of a treaty with its legitimate government(s).
If The New Race's (TNR's) star system exists well inside the Federations boundaries, if it's basically completely surrounded by the Federation, then the Federation government is going to be be keeping the Klingons, Romulans, others away from TNR because the Federation is simply keeping those races out of it's space. It makes no difference if TNR is prewarp or warp-capable. It like when Italy protects it's borders, Italy is unofficial protecting The Holy See. However that doesn't make The Holy See a protectorate. Once the TNR begins to make their own alliances, that could change.

Penta wrote: View Post
Politically, the planet has (ideally) a single stable government with authority over the entire territory held by the species on planet and beyond the planet, or an intergovernmental organization that can do the same thing. There might still be conflicts here or there, some perhaps barely under control, but no wars breaking out;
I don't buy that last part. If there are some conflicts still out there barely under control, then the planet is by definition still politically unstable and disunited, and a flare-up of a local war is inevitable without Federation mediation.
But it doesn't mean the entire planet is out of control, it mean isolated regions are. On Earth today there are seventeen plus "hot" wars ongoing, but as a whole the majority of the Earth is politically stable, even in some of the counrties engaged in those wars the populace is largely unaffected. Other places on Earth have ongoing cool and cold wars, I mentioned briefly up-thread the North/South Korea conflict, if the Federation will not initiate First Contact if two countries are currently are war, well the Koreas are. When the Vulcan's land in 2063, the Koreas still might be at war.

Penta wrote: View Post
a single stable government with authority over ...
A single world government is hardly a panacea for ending all conflicts, the country of Mexico has (theoretically) authority over all it's territory, yet one of the hot wars I included in my numbering was the one in their northern border regions.

Sci wrote: View Post
The Federation shouldn't be in the business of holding information back
The Federation government shouldn't be in the business of dishing up information either or for that matter giving detailed briefings.. The businesses in the Federation might have something like a interstellar internet information/news service, maybe TNR should look into a subscription.

Both Penta and Sci seem to view first contact as a diplomatic event, a meeting between two governments. In Sci case, there' are opportunities for treaties and agreements.

Penta seems to see first contact as obligation to bring a new warp-capable culture up to speed with the rest of the galaxy within a few generation, possible with the idea that they automatically are potential candidates for Federation Membership.

Personal, I see first contact as merely a initial meet and greet. More of a welcoming someone new to the neighborhood environment. Instead of a elaborate briefing on galactic politics, it would actual be very much like what we saw near the end of the movie First Contact, with the social interact between Zephram Cochrane and the Vulcan (Captain?).

This would also be the perfect venue to inquire as to whether TNR might simply wish to be left alone.

As much as possible this should be a happy occasion, later there will be plenty of time for formalities, assuming TNR even engages in them. The first contact parties (to use a term) would be composed of socialists, not diplomats, in addition there can be individuals from the Federation Member world's in the immediate vicinity, as well as nearby warp-capable non-Federation members. People from the stars that TNR's ancestors knew were closest tto them. People who live in star systems that TNR can now reach using only their brand new warp drive, without any help from the Federation government.

This will provide TNR with the self-confidence that, should they choose too, they can stay independent of outside influences, at least until they "get their feet under themselves."

If later they want the Federation to completely reorder their civilization without any input from them ... I guess they can ask.


The OP for this thread was; "New member integration in the UFP," we have kind of gotten hung up on the subject of first contact (where we can stay), It would be interesting to consider how a actual new member does integrate into the entire Federation, and not just the government. As well as how the Federation integrates and changes with each new member. Surely the Federation that original existed with just six members would be long gone by the time we get to one hundred and fifty plus!

Last edited by T'Girl; August 11 2010 at 11:09 PM.
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