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Old August 9 2010, 06:11 AM   #185
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V - pros and cons

captrek wrote: View Post
Sarek of Vulcan wrote: View Post
I saw it more as forgetful diplomacy, where half hearted efforts are made to work together, something gets halfway done, and then the governments quickly toss it from the books.
Admiral Bennett says that he “need[s] Jim Kirk” despite the condition of the Enterprise and sends Kirk & crew to deal with the situation. I used to think it was a pretty stupid decision, but now I think I was in error in taking the Admiral’s words at face value.

I now see it differently. The Nimbus III situation is an ass assignment. When Caithlin Dar says that their respective governments would “stop at nothing to ensure [the hostages’] safety,” she’s deluded, just as she is in her belief that she was sent to Nimbus III to make a difference. Sending the Enterprise to deal with the situation is a half-hearted action. In truth Starfleet didn’t want to pull another starship off a mission that actually matters. The bit about needing Jim Kirk was just flattery.
That makes sense. These people are in a broken down ship, pulled away from shore leave, and since by that time the Enterprise was little more than a figurehead than an actual ship of the line, they figured grab the old folks out of mothballs and chuck them at the problem.

Jonesy wrote: View Post
Sarek of Vulcan wrote: View Post
Everything from Paramount shortchanging the budget
Waitaminute. Trek 5 gained a higher budget than Trek 4 received. (although admittedly not that much higher) Still, how is that shortchanging? Did he really think he was going to be handed a vastly larger budget than Trek 4? Wasn't the reason why he chose a non-traditional effects house was because he knew how much money he was going to be handed in pre-production, and wanted to allocate more money elsewhere? And perhaps a noteworthy question: Why were Bennett, Nimoy, and Meyer able to create better films with less money involved? My answer: because they were better filmmakers.

What I find with Shatner defenders is excuses. Studio wanting humor - which is fine, if you find a capable screenwriter who can write half-decent humor. Humor was an element in all of the films, and I have seen capable-to-good humor put in some fairly dark material. Budget problems with FX? Cut down the FX. Nimoy had to do it, I am sure that Meyer and Bennett had to as well. I have never made a film myself, but I do know someone who does, and one of the most rudimentary things that they tell me is that they make the best film given the parameters laid out for them. But they don't make excuses after the fact. Directors know that they are ultimately the ones who are going to be responsible for the success and failure of their movies, and certainly planning is one element that provides success. I don't see Nimoy, Bennett, or Meyer making vast excuses for being given tiny budgets and all sorts of other hurdles thrown in front of them. I am sure that there are tons of politics and studio meddling that they have never ever shared publicly with Trek's 2,3,4 and 6. My guess is that the reason why they made successful films despite their shortcomings in terms of resources and interference is that they are/were adequate for the task. In other words, that they are/were decent-to-good filmmakers.

And to take this subject out the realm of Trek 5 for just one moment - one only has to look at the absolute garbage that Shatner has directed elsewhere to come to the realization that he is just frankly a bad filmmaker. I don't think his ego will allow him to admit that to himself, so in his eyes the problem has to come from someone or somewhere else.
I found the reasons why the movie had so many troubles to be adequate. To each his or her own.
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