M'rk, son of Mogh wrote:
Why were some things (Watanabe getting shot) transferred from one level to the next, but others (weightlessness) not?
Watanbe's injury didn't carry over between the levels when they arrived at the hotel level and the Goldeneye level he was fine. The poor clod simply got shot again
during the firefight in the Goldeneye level. I have no idea on the weightlessness it does seem to make sense it should've transfered over too.
Shouldn't everyone in level 2 be flying off the mountain because of level 1? (Also, when I've dreamed I was falling, I've never had that gut in your throat feeling of falling, I'm just... falling. As in, it's simulated, I might as well be watching it on TV. Wouldn't that apply in dreams as well? ie, falling in level 1, because it's not a REAL fall, wouldn' t affect level 2? Since there is no true sensation? I dunno, we can't exactly prove this can we. )
FWIW: The mountain was Level 3, Level 2 was the hotel and it does seem to me the weightlessness/falling should've transfered over -at least by an "logic" I could come up with on why it wouldn't- As far as how you respond to falling in dreams that may depend on the dreamer or it might just be one of the ways this movie looked at dreams differently than they are in the real world. For example, last night I actually had a dream where I was asleep
in the dream! Using this movie's logic my sleeping in the dream should've compounded the "dream time dilation" but in actuality it didn't as I was just... asleep and nothing more. (Though near as I can tell I wasn't dreaming within the dream, though've I've had that happen to me too.)
And I admit I don't understand how Murphy's character died and went to "limbo", while Leo and what's her name go to level 4 and that's the same as limbo, but he's alive and that brings him back to life in level 3?
Him dying and going to Limbo had something to do with the heavy sedative they were on (he died instead of waking up.) For this movie's logic "dying in a dream" and not waking up sends you down a dream level. Now, when they go to Limbo and it's Leo's limbo is one of two things. Either Leo's character was controling all of this so it was "his Limbo" -much like they were all controlling the city level, hotel level, etc.- or Limbo as an actual "place" that'd be the same for everyone everywhere anytime. Him "dying" in Limbo brought him back to life, I think, because Limbo is the bottom level so like "dying in a dream" wakes you yp if you "die" in limbo you go up a level. The problem is in Limbo the time dilation is compounded many times from the real world so decades
pass compared to the hours in the real world and (it seems) one cannot "die of old age" in the dreams so you have to kill yourself in Limbo to get out of it.
So they had to go into Limbo, find Murphy, kill him, to get him to "wake up" in the Goldeneye level (again he can't fall any further so he goes up a level, but if he dies again he still cannot wake up in any of the other levels because of the sedatives so he'd go to Limbo.) Ellen kills herself in Limbo, again to go up a level, while Leo stays behind to find Wantabe to kill him
so they can all go up a level.
Now the sedative they used was powerful enough to knock them out for several hourse yet not powerful enough to keep them so sedated that the "kick" wouldn't work. For this reason everyone pretty much had to be in the same places at the same time to ride the kick up a level.
So. :deep breath:
Ellen and Murphy "die" in Limbo to get back to the Goldeneye level, Leo stays behind, catches up with Wantabe to kill both of them to go up a level (and remember Leo has years to do this compared to the time in the Goldeneye level) to put all of them, accept for the guy in the hotel level, in the Goldeneye level the building is blown-up to get them all to wake up in the hotel's level.
The elevator crashes to "kick" them awake in the van.
Awake in the van, here, I think they had to hide-out and wait for sedative to wear off.
Also keep in mind their whole plan had to be accelerated and made up pretty much as they went along due to the "immune system" Murphy had been trained with. While they would've had something like a week's worth of time in Level 1 it was decreased to hours because of the immune system.
IIRC "factors of twelve" compounded through the dream world so something like eight days needed to pass in the city dream world, three months in the hotel world, three years in the Goldeneye/snow world and almost 40 years in the Limbo level.
I admit, I could just be kinda dumb when trying to keep up with the movie. But it really just didn't do much for me. And I don't like Joseph Gorden Lovett (sp?) as an actor. He doesn't seem natural, everything about him screams "Look at me, I'm an actor, I'm acting in a movie." It's tough to explain. I felt the same way when I saw him in Brick.
Can't say I recall seeing JGT in anything that sticks out in my mind, I'm sure I have, so I guess he's not an actor who leaves an impression on me. Neither does Leo, for that matter. As for "being dumb" don't fret it. There was a lot
to keep track of in this movie and, honestly, I'd probably have to see it again to make sure. Hell, if I wanted to be overly critical of it I'd say the entire movie
is exposition to "teach the audience" how things are going to work during the third act and they just kinda tossed in the stuff with Mal to make it seem like there was a plot. So, in essence, the first two acts of the movie was their little "How Our Climax is Going to Work: For Dummies!" But it was interesting and fascinating for me. I love mind-bending things like they presented here that just gets me thinking.
But Tom Hardy was awesome! Nice to see him moving on from Shinzon and doing well with the part!
You're like the umpteenth person in this thread to mention Hardy "moving on" from Shinzon or something along those lines with NEM. You guys realize Hardy's done other movies and work (likely more stage work) since Nemesis, right? And that his Nemesis role is likely not notable to anyone but Star Trek fans, right? I mean, Nemesis was
made like eight years ago.
EDIT - I did miss something. I forgot about the building collapse being the Goldeneye level's "kick."
So the building blows up to "kick" them awake in the Hotel. (Man that
must've been awkward. "What the fuck are you doing to us, man?!")
The elevator crashes and they "kick" awake in the van. Now we seem them scrambling to get everyone out of the van and ashore. IIRC they had to... hide out here for several days to avoid the immune system until the sedative wore off? Because there's nothing they can do in the dream due to sedative to wake themseleves up, right? That was the problem they had with the immune system and "dying" there not really waking them up, and instead sending them to Limbo. :scratches head:
Dammit. I need to see this movie again!