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Old July 23 2010, 03:48 AM   #34
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: battles at warp speed

Omega_Glory wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
I don't think so. TOS had a pretty good mix of warp vs warp and warp vs sublight battles

"Balance of Terror" - Enterprise (warp and sublight) phasers at Romulan (impulse)
"Balance of Terror" - Romulan (impulse) plasma bolt at Enterprise (warp)

"The Ultimate Computer" - Enterprise (warp) phasers at Fed ships (warp)
"The Ultimate Computer" - Fed ships (warp) phasers at Enterprise (warp)
"The Ultimate Computer" - Enterprise (warp) torpedo at Woden (unknown)

"Elaan of Troyius" - Klingon Battlecruiser (warp and impulse) at Enterprise (impulse)
"Elaan of Troyius" - Enterprise (warp) torpedoes at Klingon Battlecruiser (warp)

"Journey To Babel" - Enterprise (unknown) phasers and torpedoes at Orion ship (high warp)
"Journey To Babel" - Enterprise (sublight) phasers at Orion ship (sublight)

"The Changeling" - Nomad (warp and sublight) torpedo at Enterprise (warp and sublight)
"The Changeling" - Enterprise (sublight) torpedo at Nomad (sublight)

"The Deadly Years" - Romulans (probably warp) torpedo at Enterprise (warp)
I would have to disagree.

Balance of Terror…The Enterprise fired at warp 2 into open space (couldn’t get a lock on the Romulan). This is essentially the sci fi equivalent of dropping depth charges. The Romulans speed was never mentioned, only that her power supply was the same as what powered the E’s impulse engines. The Romulan torpedo is in fact a warp speed capable weapon as the Enterprise backed away at full emergency warp and was still overtaken; one of the few actually confirmed as warp capable.
I'm not sure what part you disagree with me here. Enterprise at warp fires phasers at Romulan at impulse. Open space would mean shooting in the air but they were targeting and detonating phaser blasts close enough to warrant that they were in fact aiming at the Romulan ship. (Warp vs impulse and in the end, sublight vs impulse).

Omega_Glory wrote: View Post
The Ultimate Computer…the Enterprise was at warp in all cases, but the targets of her weapons were never specified as being at any particular speed. You can only make assumptions but they are just assumptions.
In the first wargame, the Lexington and Excalibur started the battle with one in front and the other behind the Enterprise at 200,000km and closing. When the Enterprise increased speed to Warp 3 one of the ships "closed on" the Enterprise. That would not have been possible if the opposing ships were at sublight.

In the second wargame we know that the Lexington's impulse engines were hit but she was still maneuverable on warp drive. We can make the assumption that she had to resort to using her warp engines, no? In anycase, since M-5 didn't slow the Enterprise down and the other three ships had to get out of her phaser range, we can also assume that at some point they moved away at a faster warp to get some distance. Considering also warp combat was standard procedure in "The Elaan of Troyius" we have no reason to believe that the other 4 ships wanted to wallow around at sublight with a warp driven starship fighting against them

Omega_Glory wrote: View Post
Elaan of Troyius....in this one the Klingon strafed a sublight Enterprise until the Enterprise went to warp. The Klingon was at sublight on the last battle pass as Sulu counts the range down at about 10,000 KM per sec or so. The Big E then pivots at warp two and apparently drops back to sublight as it was another ten or twenty seconds before she fired on the sublight battlecruiser.
Aren't you now making the assumption that the Enterprise drops down to sublight after the warp 2 pivot? ;-)

From the dialogue, there was no indication that Kirk intended to drop down to sublight after the warp two pivot (and he didn't order it prior to telling Chekov fire). However once the Enterprise went to warp the Klingon was able to score another hit on the Enterprise before the warp pivot. Either the Klingons at sublight hit the Enterprise when she jumped to warp two or the Klingons accelerated to warp to hit the Enterprise that was at warp.

Omega_Glory wrote: View Post
Journey To Babel....in this episode the speed of the Big E is not confirmed. The attacker is at a much higher speed but that’s all we have.
We know that during the battle, the Enterprise was at unknown speed, but the attacker's first pass was at Warp 8. Further passes we just know as faster than the Enterprise. This would qualify the Enterprise (at unknown speed) firing at the Orion ship making warp passes.

However on the final run we know the Enterprise has cut power and is "starting to drift" which lures the Orion ship to slow dramatically down and drop "close to sublight" (indicating it was at warp). By the time "75,000km" is read off, the ship was still out there to be attacked (rather than zipping by at low warp) so we can deduce that the Orion was at sublight when she was hit.

Omega_Glory wrote: View Post
The Changeling......the Enterprise speed is never mentioned. The episode is a mishmash of conflicting information concerning Nomad's weapon speed and range.
We know based on the dialogue there was the attempt to evade with the warp engines and once Kirk was informed that they were coming in at Warp 15, that no longer became an option. So it's Nomad's warp bolts vs Enterprise evading with warp engines. We know on the 3rd hit the Enterprise definitely goes to impulse and Nomad has moved to 90,000km and holds position there. At this point it becomes a sublight vs sublight battle.

Omega_Glory wrote: View Post
The Deadly Years….in this one, the Enterprise was at sublight before Kirk came back onto the bridge and ordered the ship to go to warp speed.
She was at Warp 5 when she set course for the RNZ and had made no indication of slowing down when she was hit with the first romulan blast. That qualifies for a Enterprise at warp attacked by Romulans who were pacing her at warp. By the time a rejuvenated Kirk made it to the bridge, it could be assumed that the Enterprise dropped to sublight, but it might not and she was still at Warp 5 with 10 romulans keeping pace around her.

So as far as TOS goes, not virtually every battle was a warp on sublight affair. We get a good mix of warp on warp, sublight on warp, warp on sublight and sublight on sublight battles.
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