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Old June 27 2010, 09:01 PM   #48
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Can Pine's Kirk work as an authority figure?

No maturity, no sense of authority, no loyalty to his crew...really?!?!?!?!
We saw glimmers of those elements, but there wasn't enough screen time for more than a glimmer. Those are the elements that subsequent movies need to develop.

Which is good, of course. The characters all need to have some sort of arc, and Kirk and Spock need the most substantial arcs. It can't just be funny colored aliens and splosions.

Willingness to lay down his life and that of the crew to save Earth and the Federation is a pretty LARGE show of dedication.
Anybody would try to save their home planet. There was no discussion at all of Federation ideals (maybe because of lack of time combined with an assumption that the audience is at least passingly familiar with them). It would be nice for subsequent movies to address this in dialogue at least briefly. Starfleet is more than just space cops.

Many of you lack the understanding to see how being a little arrogant, a little cocky can still mesh with being a good leader and a person who can show caring and loyalty and earn respect.
I think the problem is that in real life, the arrogant, cocky types are almost always selfish idiots who make abysmal leaders. They think they can be good leaders, but it's a pathetic self-delusion. The real leaders I've met - and I've met a few - are good communicators and collaborators, and are careful not to make a bad impression by coming off as arrogant or displaying any other traits that disrupt the cohesion of the group. They know how they are perceived by others, and that this perception is supremely important. Even if they are arrogant in reality, they have the self-awareness and self-discipline to suppress it.

Which is not to say that this particular character can't be cocky and also a good leader. But it's a combo that isn't all that common in the real world that I've ever noticed, so the screenwriters need to sell it to us.

Then when Spock gets all weird and is doing his please tell Uhura bit, Kirk repeats to him their plan is going to work. No question, no doubt. a Leader saying we are going to face crappy odds and win. Period. Sure sounds like a good leader to me.
That just came off as glib. Anyone can say, rah-rah-rah, we're gonna win! A good leader will be honest about the situation. If they're going into what's likely to be a suicide mission, say so. Self-delusion, or attempts to delude your team, is not a leadership trait. Anyone who's in Starfleet has already made the choice to sacrifice their life under certain circumstances, so there's no need to be dishonest about the situation.
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