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Old May 21 2010, 03:01 AM   #65
indolover
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Re: How do Niners feel about TNG?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Had Picard confined his comments to the Mintakan situation and to the Federation's role in abrogating a free choice made by the Mintakans--instead of extending it to ALL believers in ALL religions--I wouldn't have had a problem. But the generalization I found offensive and quite frankly, what it suggests about what happened to humanity as they moved into their "utopia" is scary. I just hope it was exile, and not something worse.
Picard is not that bad, he's just written that way.

When I watch it now, TNG is often unbearable, particularly in its early seasons, mostly for these kind of speeches. Fortunately, they stopped (for the most part) doing that as Roddenberry's influence lowered and as a bunch of new and better [than those who worked in season 1 and 2] writers (Piller, Moore, Braga, Echevarria, Behr, Fields...) scripts were good for the most part while she was on TNG) came aboard. Not that we still didn't occasionally get an "Earth society is perfect" speech (Troi in Time's Arrow,pt 2) or an absurd and infuriating interpretation of the Prime Directive (Homeward)... But there are quite a few episodes that feel like proto-DS9, so it would be really difficult for a Niner to dislike all of TNG.

My in-universe explanation is that we shouldn't take everything that Picard says as a literal truth. When a foreign diplomat (which Picard is in a way, among other things) starts telling you how wonderful his country is, it's normal to take it with a grain of salt, as there's always propaganda involved.I'm sure he believes in what he says, but it seems like he tends to generalize and exaggerate a lot, and that he's often talking about the Human race as he would like them to be, rather than what they are. He says that there is no money in the Federation and that Humans are not driven by profit, yet his brother is a landowner and small-time businessman. I wonder if he even has a clue about how things really are back on Earth, since he spends most of the time in space, meeting aliens and contrasting their cultures and societies to the idealized Earth society. If he talks in a way that suggests that Humans are not religious anymore, I take it in the meaning that the percentage of religious people has gone down compared to the previous centuries, and they're not a majority anymore, and that the role of religion in society is diminished - not that there aren't still many religious people. After all, we know that traditional religious holidays still exist and haven't been renamed or re-interpreted to fit an atheist mindset (Hindu Festival of Lights, Christmas), and yeah, there's also Chakotay or the native American colonists from "Journey's End".

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I know that sometimes when DS9 is mentioned to her in interviews she calls it "Deep Sleep Nine", which doesn't make much sense considering the fact that DS9 is the epic war series while her show was the one about that stuffy English guy that flies around the galaxy giving speeches.

(No, that was not a slight against TNG, I happen to enjoy many of Picard's speeches.)
I didn't know that. Now I feel really good thinking about that time when she unsuccessfully campaigned for getting a guest starring role in BSG. I remember when those interview/interviews appeared before season 4 and were discussed on Skiffy BSG forum, pretty much everyone was either appalled or laughing at her and saying "hell no, Ron is not crazy". The news that Nana Visitor would appear in season 4, OTOH, was greeted enthusiastically by posters familiar with Trek.
Star Trek as a franchise is based on the "humanity is different and evolved" ideal. I don't see that as a criticism of TNG as such. In fairness, it's a criticism of DS9, since whilst an excellent show, it was not in sync with Trek values.

Is the Roddenberry vision realistic? I don't think it is personally. But it is art. Art by definition is abstract, or a representation of a given thing. It doesn't have to be a wholly accurate representation, since it is abstract.

I think season 1 of TNG (bar the neutral zone and maybe DataLore) sucked. Season 2 was so-so, but it did kick off in quality terms from season 3 to 7.
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