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Old May 16 2010, 01:00 AM   #2617
J. Allen
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post
Sorry, but you're wrong.
I disagree.

Every single flaw that I have mentioned, are actually flaws in the movie. Everyone who is objective will notice the same things. I am being objective about these things.
I disagree.

And the simple objective fact is, if you are being honest and objective, the more flaws there are in a movie, the less good it is.
It depends upon how you would define honest and objective. One does not necessarily prerequisite the other accurately.

If you are further honest and objective, you are capable of noticing once a movie has gone over a threshold. Having more plotholes, idiocies, contradictions and illogic in a single scene than multiple other movies combined, should, for anyone who is objective and honest, be a massive indicator you've crossed that threshold. Especially if this isn't the one exception scene, and pretty much every scene has one ore more such holes, contradictions, or idiocies; let alone the clearly bad set dressing. Let me repeat: Brick. Walls. On. Starships.
How many starships have you built?
What is the design layout for that section of the ship that has brick walls? Is it brick?

You see, I can ask these questions because we're not dealing with a reality, we're dealing with a fantasy. For all we know the brick wall could be an insulator that takes on the appearance of brick, yet has the qualities of steel or tritanium. There is no way for you to know, and to suggest otherwise is to remove the fantasy back into reality. At that point, when you judge the fantasy by reality, it fails, which is an unbalanced judgment.

If you are upset at the brick walls, then you must also drag the rest of Star Trek into reality and base it on that. Warp drive, transporters, earth like planets every week, funny forehead aliens that are extraordinarily like human beings.

If design is your issue, then you must dislike the plywood sets used on the original series (some of it quite noticeable). Perhaps you have issues with the obvious matte paper photos of starfields and nebulae that are plastered about the bridge, or perhaps Captain Kirk's Samsonite luggage?

So you must tell me whether you are going to judge this movie based on reality, in which all Star Trek movies would fail, or judge it based in fantasy, in which case you cannot complain about something with which you would only have a superficial acquaintance.

Either way, at this moment, your posts are not at all balanced in evaluating the movie. I will give examples later in this post.

If you then go beyond, and find your movie has more such contradictions, holes and idiocies than universally named some of the worst movies ever created, if you're honest and objective, you should be able to fess up that the movie is bad, completely regardless of whether or not you like it, and enjoy watching it.
However, your posts are not honest or objective in regards to the movie. I will give examples later in this post.

For example, I LOVE Mortal Kombat. I love that movie, I consider it one of, if not the most enjoyable movies to I've ever watched. I can also tell you, objectively and honestly speaking, it's not a good movie. It isn't quite as bad as some people claim to be; for that you need to go to the the sequel, but it's bad.

See, it can be done, you just have to be willing to be objective and honest about a movie.
Star Trek XI has it's faults. Some of them plot based, others set based. It is, on the whole, however, a good movie.

And I am objective and honest about the movie.
I disagree. Your posts indicate little to no objectivity.

Example One

Example Two

Example Three

In fact, in example three, you call Star Trek XI the worst movie you have ever seen. Ever, whether Star Trek or not. Do you consider that even remotely honest and objective? You have opinions, strong ones, but that does not make them fact, neither does it take away from the successes the movie has garnered.

The point comes down to this: Are you arguing against the movie versus reality, or are you arguing against the movie in the fantasy universe in which it resides? You seem to bounce back from one to the other, and combine them in your strong hatred of the movie. It is similar to the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" method of critique, and that is a poor method to follow.
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