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Old May 15 2010, 11:15 PM   #2616
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Sarek of Vulcan wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
Nope, wrong. Plotholes have nothing to do with taste. Plotholes are plotholes are plotholes. Outright contradictions are worse so, and remain outright contradictions regardless of your taste.

Plotholes are objective.

People denying them, is deliberately trying to make a movie better than it really is. That's probably the worst anyone liking this movie; that they spend their time defending plotholes, or trying to say they aren't there; THAT is subjective, not only subjective, it is irrational.

Pointing out plotholes is not. And if people liking this movie were rational, they'd say, yes, indeed, the movie is filled and filled with plotholes, bad sets, barely disguised, or not disguised at all sets, it makes this movie bad, but I like it anyway.

Instead, they spend their time denying them, or claiming that the people who noticed the plotholes and point them out, are merely subjective, biased, childish, "producing a tempest", etc. etc.

Yes, indeed, you CAN judge a movie objectively, if you're honest enough. There are several movies that I like, that are bad movies, and I will tell so, honestly.
While plot holes are more objective, you are not being objective. The vast majority of your complaints have been wholly subjective, your posts laced with contempt that is also subjective. There are plot holes in this movie, yes. As there are in most movies where one has to fabricate something from nothing, there will be mistakes. That does not, however, invalidate the movie, neither does it make a movie "bad".

Your dislike of the movie is a subjective one, based on personal opinion in matters of taste. That is fine, but let us not defer it, by proxy, to matters that are objective, in an effort to validate your own personal tastes.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Every single flaw that I have mentioned, are actually flaws in the movie. Everyone who is objective will notice the same things. I am being objective about these things.

And the simple objective fact is, if you are being honest and objective, the more flaws there are in a movie, the less good it is.

If you are further honest and objective, you are capable of noticing once a movie has gone over a threshold. Having more plotholes, idiocies, contradictions and illogic in a single scene than multiple other movies combined, should, for anyone who is objective and honest, be a massive indicator you've crossed that threshold. Especially if this isn't the one exception scene, and pretty much every scene has one ore more such holes, contradictions, or idiocies; let alone the clearly bad set dressing. Let me repeat: Brick. Walls. On. Starships.

If you then go beyond, and find your movie has more such contradictions, holes and idiocies than universally named some of the worst movies ever created, if you're honest and objective, you should be able to fess up that the movie is bad, completely regardless of whether or not you like it, and enjoy watching it.

For example, I LOVE Mortal Kombat. I love that movie, I consider it one of, if not the most enjoyable movies to I've ever watched. I can also tell you, objectively and honestly speaking, it's not a good movie. It isn't quite as bad as some people claim to be; for that you need to go to the the sequel, but it's bad.

See, it can be done, you just have to be willing to be objective and honest about a movie. And I am objective and honest about the movie.
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