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Old May 4 2010, 09:03 PM   #249
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Location: Melbourne, AUS
Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post

About genocide:

"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."

The extermination of the entire group is NOT necessary for the act to be GENOCIDE. Germans in WW2 did NOT kill all the jews.
Killing BILLIONS of a given group is MORE THAN ENOUGH for the act to qualify as GENOCIDE.
I actually looked at that little Wiki before my last post, and one thing you decided to leave out from that link was:

While a precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Which basically means Genocide can mean all sorts of different things done to a particular "group" in a negative manner.

Since the Borg were for the most part, indiscriminate in their assimilation of alien species, they did not specifically target humans or the federation alone.

The problem I see is that you are subjectively putting a number into the equation to justify your own view on what Genocide means. You say it needs billions of deaths to qualify to be Genocide, yet I don't see that noted anywhere..... and I know "Billions" were not killed in the Rwandan Genocide or what happened in Darfur.... therefore your view on what is needed to be classified as Genocide is also flawed.

Furthermore, I question your affirmation that cultural assimilation as encountered in our history is remotely similar to the borg ideea of assimilation who was more than once decribed as worse than death, a living hell.
An opinion of one individual, where Seven of Nine seemed to have no issue about being a Borg for the longest time and noted many advantages of being a Borg..... so now we have one person saying one thing, and another saying another.

Your above argument and logic is now cancelled out.

About Picard:
Whether the paradox would have worked or not is not even relevant when considering Picard's choice.

When he made his decision Picard WAS CONVINCED THAT THE PARADOX WOULD HAVE WORKED, and he KNEW THAT THE BORG WILL CONTINUE KILLING AND ASSIMILATING TRILLONS, that they are doing this even as he deliberates.
Picard INTENDED to condemn to death and assimilation TRILLIONS! Picard INTENDED to let all those people die when he could save them! Picard intended to commit genocide!
All so he could say he's the perfectly moral guy - so he can delude himself that he is so - you see, genocide was upon him whatever his choice; he could only choose who will die: a genocidal army which brought horror beyond human comprehension or countless civilizations, sentient beings.
The problem is that on one hand, you have him allowing more people to be assimilated by the borg.... and on the other hand, he could have uploaded the virus, destroyed the borg and thus killed every single captured individual in the collective, never even bothering to see if there's a chance to save them, which was proven time and time again, quite possible...... choose one form of "Genocide" for an even worse form, which would have been on his head, which later on through the ST seriesez, was proven not necessary in the first place.

If you admit genocide is monstruous, then you admit Picard's decision was monstruous, Praxius.
No I don't because Picard doesn't own the Borg, he did not give birth to the Borg, he did not invent the Borg.... he is not responsible for the actions of another except himself. (Not including Command/Crew Responsibilities of course)

About the paradox's objective chances:
The fact that Picard&co were certain the paradox would have worked is strong indication the paradox's chances of dismantling the hive ming were very high.
And as said before, there are many instances where the Crew and Picard thought something would work perfectly, but didn't.

Furthermore, weapons who shared significant similitudes with the paradox were used against the collectice later on - most notably on VOY:Endgame.
Still haven't gotten that far in the series, will let you know what I think when I do.

Plus, the exact conditions from 'I, Borg' were never ecountered again - having access to a drone classified by the collective as still connected to the hive mind without the borg knowing about it.
It would be easy to duplicate... heck they could have done it to Seven and sent her back.... the Collective seemed all up for getting her back..... also, I'm sure they'd find a way to kidnap, beam away a borg drone, upload the virus and send it back.

Either way, as I see it, this debate is kinda running around in circles and getting nowhere. It would seem all that needs to be said has been said.
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