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Old May 3 2010, 11:36 PM   #225
Rush Limborg
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Re: Was Picard wrong in I,Borg?

Praxius wrote: View Post
Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Hold your breaths, folks--I AGREE with Hartzilla2007--his current point, at least.

To be perfectly frank, accuse me of repeating my questions--but I assure you, it is not because I did not read you answers. It is because you repeat your statements--albeit in embellished forms. I simply repeated it because you acted as if your statements explained themselves--which they did not.

Also, as "Starship Down" made perfectly clear--the Founders dying, in fact, result in the Jem'Hadar commiting suicide, for failing to save them. (I seem to recall you, or was it someone else, claiming that that was "just one incident"? Well...?)

Furthermore, you said the Vorta ran things most of the time. Recall that the F.C. took part in the formation of the alliance with the Breen--and that Weyoun constantly rebuked Damar with words along the lines of "You would disobey/question the Founder?"

Though Weyoun seemed to run things at first, the F.C. seemed to hold more authority as time went on.

Now...again, I do read your posts, all too well. You say:

Killing all the founders would only have made the Vorta/Jem'hadar, angrier, more determined. They would have never stopped coming for the Federation - NEVER. If it takes hundreds of years, they would still come.
And yet you also say:

As for defeating the Alpha Quadrant Jem'hadar expeditionary force - replenishing ships and jem'hadar takes time and resources - and it can only be done in the gamma quadrant. The founders could not have sent anything to the Federation for decades.
At least some positive result - unlike killing the founders.
First you are incorrect--the Dominion could simply rebuild the Jem'Hadar cloning factories, as well as shipyards, etc.

Second--again, the situation is the same. Recall that in the finale, the Dominion fleet was going to be destroyed anyway. Thus, the only Jem'Hadar/Vorta threat, if your theory holds, would be from the Gamma Quadrant. So...what makes the two scenarios different?

Simple. The Founders--who had been, again, the designers of the Jem'Hadar and the enhanced Vorta--are wiped out in one scenario. In the other, they are not. Either way, the Domion is enraged, and out for revenge. one scenario, the head of the serpent is cut off.
For the record, the episode where they found the downed ship and the Jem killed themselves was "The Ship" - Season 5.... not "Starship Down" - Season 4.
I know. My bad.

The Vorta stayed alive and it was only the Jem'Hadar who were on the planet responsible for the rescue effort who killed themselves, because they were responsible for the Founder's safety..... note that the female Vorta transported back to the Jem'Hadar ship orbiting the planet after the conflict, which would mean someone had to still be alive on the ship to beam her back and to fly it.

In other episodes, it is noted that the Vorta are the ones who deal with the Cloning and White development, meanwhile it was the founders who made the Vorta smart in the first place..... so technically speaking, the Jem'Hadar and Vorta could have continued on if the Founders died..... but that's a "Could" meaning, I wouldn't be 100% sure on that.
Could have--but I'm not convinced that they would have. But even so, without the Founders, the Alpha Quadrant faces a bit less of a threat. Think: no infiltrators.

Rojixus wrote: View Post
Gentlemen, you're starting to forget the question being asked here: Was Picard wrong not to release that virus in I Borg? I say he was. Picard thought he had a sure way to get rid of the Borg once and for all and he didn't take it, thus possibly condemning billions to assimilation (Which, according to Picard's actions in FC, is worse than death). This make Picard the worst kind of coward, he was willing to put the Federation in mortal jeopardy just so he could do the "moral" thing.

It does not matter if the virus would or would not have worked, what matters is that Picard believed the virus would work. As Picard himself admitted, the moral thing to do is not always the right thing to do.
I agree--to a point. I think Picard's last-minute conversion (to use a terrible metaphor) was basically due to the fact that Hugh, like it or not, was an individual with rights of his own.

I think, though, Picard should have discussed it with Hugh--and, if Greater Than The Sum is any indication, Hugh would have agreed.

But anyhow, recall also that Picard side-stepped his "high-horse" moralism by asserting that Hugh's individuality would spread like the virus would have, once he was re-connected.

Of course, Picard learned the error of his ways for real in "Descent". Ah, well....
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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