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Old April 14 2010, 09:19 PM   #34
Fleet Captain
Re: was ezri right in Tacking into the Wind - are Klingons hypocrites?

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
The Klingons are definitely hypocrites, but no more so than the Federation.

The Klingons talk a big game about honor, but then constantly act dishonorably.

The Federation talks a big game about understanding and acceptance, but then constantly judges others by UFP standards.
That's because the Federation actually follows its moral code.
The alternative is not applying this moral code when it comes to others - aka betraying its morals. The prime directive streches the limit of its morality as it is.
If its moral code is to accept others' ways and beliefs, how is it following that code to impose someone else's ways and beliefs on others and expect them to follow UFP, or more often Earth, standards? Being accepting of others means you can't expect them to be just like you.
Is it moral to accept other's ways?

Your human morals forbid the taking of lives of innocents under any circumstances.
Let's say you meet a culture where such crimes are acceptable.
Let's say you walk down a street and you see one member of this culture murdering in cold blood another person, who fights to stay alive.

If you don't interfere to save this person, you're blatantly breaching your own moral code in the name of moral relativity.
But what if the person being murdered is a human, like you? Do you let the criminal murder this human, because that's acceptable for him and you must respect this?
What if you are the one being killed? Do you let the murderer kill you because he's acting in accordance to his morals? How far does your moral relativity go?

You see, beyond a point, not judging others by your morals betrays the very fundamentals of your morals!
Even if your morals include acceptance of others, this precept cannot be absolute without making a mockery of YOUR OWN morals and beliefs - they can just as well not exist at all.

As for the Federation, the Prime Directive pushes its morality to its limits, in the name of moral relativity - of not imposing one's morals on others.

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Shran--you pretty much summed it up as far as I'm concerned.
Envy is NOT a desirable trait, Nerys Ghemor.
I don't know where you're pulling this "envy" stuff from, but as I believe I have made abundantly clear before, I do not envy the Federation...I am suspicious of it and would not want to live there. Were I in the Trekiverse, I would emigrate AWAY from it. A non-Federation colony, populated by people from species that are IN the Federation...that might work. But a Federation member world...I don't want anything to do with it.
Where do I get this 'envy' stuff from:
Your posts towards trekverse humans/the Federation have been consistently resentful, full af agressivity.

And yet, your stated reasons for this have been all over the place: conspiracy theories that, after the third world war, humans have exterminated all opposing viewpoints in order to create their society; humans don't interfere enough and are hypocrites; humans interfere too much and are hypocrites; humans are naive and arrogant (I find that quite ironic, considering that cardassians are your favourite species), etc.

Your resentment towards trekverse humans has no logical basis, it's textbook envy; if I were to speculate, I would say it exists because you identified with the cardassians and the Federation won one too many times the 'games' played with the Cardassian Union.

Last edited by ProtoAvatar; April 15 2010 at 11:49 AM.
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