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Old March 24 2010, 05:46 AM   #44
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Seven Deadly Sins Discuss/ Grade

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Heh...the Mirror Universe, and what DS9 did with it, is a whole other thread.

As to what humanity is in denial about--their paradise could NEVER have happened without a steep price being paid. Something tells me there was some serious revisionist history that went on.
It's pretty clearly established how the trekverse human society came about - the third world war. Humanity DID pay a steep price, but no one else was involved and paid anything.

Revisionist history? At what period are you referring? Now you sound like a typical cardassian, letting envy speak.
The likely period of ignored/suppressed history spans through the latter half of the 21st century into the 22nd. Some of its effects may go through into the 23rd and beyond. The economic and ideological shift that occurred--the extreme uniformity we see in human thinking, aside from those who emigrated to breakaway colonies, suggests that those who held other viewpoints were either suppressed (by violence starting in the Post-Atomic Horror, or by force of law thereafter), or by extreme social pressure. Those who dissented, during this latter period, would have exiled themselves to colonies where they could operate outside the reach of the Federation.

As for envy? No, I do not envy Federation society. They have some nice things, but they can keep it to themselves. To claim tolerance towards aliens yet show intolerance towards dissenters in their own society--something doesn't add up, and I don't trust that.

Humans have morals and follow them - and they believe they have morals and follow them. Where's the arrogance in this?

"moral arbiters of the universe" - Quoting Dukat now?
As I said, humans follow their morals.
They forced no one else to do the same thing.
Did they try to convince others to accept their morals? Yes, but there's no coercion involved, no pressure - which makes all the difference.
Trek humans claim morals but follow political expediency, at least by the 24th century. (Wasn't quite as bad in the 23rd.) They claim to uphold rights, freedoms, and tolerance, but use the Prime Directive as an excuse to stand by and watch entire worlds and people die or suffer oppression.

Their attitude towards the Bajorans at the beginning is very telling (though this shifts over time): they see them as backwards, superstitious bumpkins, and make it their express goal to make Bajor a Federation member--maybe not by force, but certainly to apply pressure in that direction, because it was strategic territory near Cardassia and they wanted it.

Now THAT shifted over time, and thank goodness. But that's definitely how they started out.

"naive as to how the universe really works, and what the human(oid) nature REALLY is that so often they are unwilling to take a stand" - If you ask for help, the Federation will help you. If you don't want Federation interference, it won't interfere.
It's called NOT being imperialists. If the Federation would "take stands" - interfere - you'll call them imperialists.
Even when ASKED for help they often refuse. It's nowhere near as clearcut as you seem to think it is. I think "paternalistic" may be a more appropriate term than "imperialistic."
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